Enon Police rights violation

[TMFC]

A good buddy if mine was pulled over a few months ago in Enon. From the get go the LEO was giving him a hard time. My friend doesn't have a nice car and he looks the part of a mechanic that is struggling, but he is a straight shooter with nothing on his record but a few traffic violations. He notified the LEO that he has his CCW and that he was armed. The LEO asked him where the gun was and he told him it was on the floor board. The LEO then asked him to see it. As he was pulling it up to place it on the dash the LEO unsnapped his holster and just about drew down on him, claiming that he had pointed the gun at him. This was not true. He picked the gun up by the slide and the barrel was pointed in a safe direction. away from everyone including his wife in the passenger seat. He was then pulled out of the vehicle and given the third degree. The LEO then visited the passenger side of the car and 20 questioned his wife. Asking her if she felt safe, assuming that he was holding her against her will. All the while the LEO didn't even secure the gun it, was left sitting on the dash board. The LEO then took his permit and his gun and sent them on their way with a traffic citation. My buddy set up a payment plan with Enon to pay the traffic ticket and no one could tell him where his permit and his gun was He even called the Mayor. a month passed and He paid the ticket off and when leaving the PD after paying the final payment another LEO pulled him over and arrested him for an outstanding warrant, for a felony mishandling of a firearm charge. He was never even notified that he was being charged with anything. They sent him to Jail for the weekend. He was eventually released on a bond. The weekend that he was locked up took a major toll on him emotionally. Good guys just don't have a place in jail. He then called me up and I offered to lend him some money to get a lawyer to ensure he doesn't see any more Jail time for this bogus felony charge. The night that he left my house after picking up the money he was pulled over by a deputy sheriff. The first thing he said to him was. "So..you got you gun on you?" Which obviously he didn't because they took his permit and his gun. He apparently pulled him over because and I quote. "His tail lights were too bright"!!!??. More harassment. Well he just had his hearing in front of the judge in Clark county and the judge apologized to him and told him that the charges were all dropped and that she would "TRY" to get his gun and permit back for him and that she is going to have a talk with the Mayor, the sheriff and the chief of police. He still has no Idea why a warrant was issued or why he had to spend the week end in jail. He finally feels free from all this but it has caused a ton of distress on this poor guy. We are looking to take this to civil court do any of you know of any civil funds that are out there for 2nd amendment violations. I contacted the NRA Civil Defense Fund but they don't have anyone that is certified to practice law in Ohio.

[Klingon00]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend's incident.

I'm not a lawyer but I don't think I would ever touch my firearm even if instructed by the LEO... too many chances for crap like this to happen. I would ask the LEO to help himself if he felt the firearm needed securing or "seeing" but I wouldn't touch it.

Here is the relevant law.

2923.16 Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle.

(E) No person who has been issued a concealed handgun license, who is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as a result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose or is the driver or an occupant of a commercial motor vehicle that is stopped by an employee of the motor carrier enforcement unit for the purposes defined in section 5503.34 of the Revised Code, and who is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle or commercial motor vehicle in any manner, shall do any of the following:

(4) Knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the person's hands or fingers in the motor vehicle at any time after the law enforcement officer begins approaching and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the person has contact with the loaded handgun pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by the law enforcement officer;

[Morne]

I'm guessing there's no recorded audio of these encounters?

You said he was keeping the gun on the floor board, can you elaborate on that? That's not exactly the normal way that I would carry in a vehicle.

Kudos to the judge for trying to straighten all of it out. Sane judges are nice to have.

[TMFC]

He has a spot behind his foot and under his seat, that he keeps it while driving. Not the way I carry either, but to each his own.I assume that there is dash cam footage.

[pirateguy191]

I'm pretty sure I will never handle my gun in the presence of a LEO. Even if it's a direct order, I think I will politely decline.

[DontTreadOnMe]

I'm pretty sure I will never handle my gun in the presence of a LEO. Even if it's a direct order, I think I will politely decline.

While I agree it's a very bad idea to handle a gun in presence of a LEO keep in mind ORC 2923.12(C)(4) 2923.16(E)(5) make it a 1st degree Misdemeanor to "fail to comply with any lawful order".

Rather than just refusing to do so, better to suggest an alternate way to comply.

[pirateguy191]

I know the consequences, still doesn't mean I'm gonna do it.

[TJW815]

I'm pretty sure I will never handle my gun in the presence of a LEO. Even if it's a direct order, I think I will politely decline.

While I agree it's a very bad idea to handle a gun in presence of a LEO keep in mind ORC 2923.12(C)(4) 2923.16(E)(5) make it a 1st degree Misdemeanor to "fail to comply with any lawful order".

Rather than just refusing to do so, better to suggest an alternate way to comply.

Well that's the kicker. I don't see it as a lawful order. The ORC specifically says to not touch it.

[Tweed Ring]

You may not view this as a lawful order – I disagree.

[TJW815]

You may not view this as a lawful order – I disagree.

So it's lawful when a police officer orders you to do something that is against the law? I guess I totally buggered up the definition of lawful and unlawful.

I guess we will have to disagree on that one tweed.


ETA:
law•ful
adjective
1. allowed or permitted by law; not contrary to law: a lawful enterprise.

unlawful[ uhn-law-fuhl ]
adjective
1. not lawful; contrary to law; illegal.

[JustaShooter]

You may not view this as a lawful order – I disagree.

So it's lawful when a police officer orders you to do something that is against the law? I guess I totally buggered up the definition of lawful and unlawful.

I think Tweed is right on this one. See the emphasized text at the end of the quote from ORC 2923.16 (E) (4):

2923.16 Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle.

(E) No person who has been issued a concealed handgun license, who is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as a result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose or is the driver or an occupant of a commercial motor vehicle that is stopped by an employee of the motor carrier enforcement unit for the purposes defined in section 5503.34 of the Revised Code, and who is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle or commercial motor vehicle in any manner, shall do any of the following:

(4) Knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the person's hands or fingers in the motor vehicle at any time after the law enforcement officer begins approaching and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the person has contact with the loaded handgun pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by the law enforcement officer;

[Tweed Ring]

Like I said, it’s a lawful order.

[Brian D.]

Ah, I see the new post above mine hit where I was about to go. Let me just add that if I'm ordered to handle my carry gun during a law enforcement stop, I will require that order to be repeated, louder and into the microphone, before complying.

[Tweed Ring]

Asking for repetition for purposes of clarification should not be an issue. Refusal to comply could be an issue.

I like to decide these matters in my favor.

[Brian D.]

But let's try to help the original poster and his friend if we can get back to the topic.

Long time ago when licensed carry was new-ish, a pal of mine was stopped under similar circumstances. He didn't notify immediately--it's my belief the officer deliberately didn't give him the chance--and was later on summoned to the station, where he was forced to surrender the firearm, and got a 'failure to notify' charge added onto the alleged traffic infraction.

My friend didn't "lawyer up", trying to do things through back channels as it were, since he had a bit of political connection in the town. Not as much as he thought, though. The police chief kept promising to get the charges dropped and return the gun but never did. Most likely because the officer who made the stop swiped it from the property room (along with some other stuff) some time before resigning/being forced to quit because of other, job-related matters. That chief knew about the theft(s) but was letting it all slide because ultimately he knew the officer was going to be somebody else's headache in the near future.

There are many other sordid details in this long twisted tale but the bottom line is....my friend didn't immediately call his lawyer, who he has kept on retainer for years anyhow for personal and business matters. In his case it wasn't about the money, he just wanted things handled more quietly. He now knows that was the wrong plan of action.