Stopped leaving Wal-Mart parking lot

[charliej47]

It's 5:15AM and I stopped at Wal-Mart to get a few things on my way to work.

I come to the end on the parking lot and I look left and right and did not see anyone on the road. I continued and got almost to the interstate when I got lit up.

I informed and then asked why I was stopped.

The LEO informed me that I ran the stop sign at the end of Wal-Mart's parking lot.

I said that anything posted on private property was just that, private.

The LEO said , "next time stop" He did not right me up.

Question?

I think I'm correct and he was wrong, but I didn't argue.

Anyone got any different?

[nu3gawhat]

Well, I'm going to guess that if it was at the end of the parking lot, where it meets the road. I may very well have been valid since you were entering a public road. I'm no expert on that.

[JediSkipdogg]

There is something but I can't find it. You are required to stop before entering any public roadway, regardless of a sign or not. I believe this is the ORC for it....

4511.431 Stop prior to driving on sidewalk area.
(A) The driver of a vehicle or trackless trolley emerging from an alley, building, private road, or driveway within a business or residence district shall stop the vehicle or trackless trolley immediately prior to driving onto a sidewalk or onto the sidewalk area extending across the alley, building entrance, road, or driveway, or in the event there is no sidewalk area, shall stop at the point nearest the street to be entered where the driver has a view of approaching traffic thereon.

(B) Except as otherwise provided in this division, whoever violates this section is guilty of a minor misdemeanor. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to one predicate motor vehicle or traffic offense, whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If, within one year of the offense, the offender previously has been convicted of two or more predicate motor vehicle or traffic offenses, whoever violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the third degree.

[Brian D.]

That happened to me three different times in the same spot in northern Kentucky. Going from parking lot to non-public access road, didn't quite stop at the sign. Cop waiting there each time. Short answer that department had one restaurant/nightclub they watched like hawks for OVI. (To the exclusion of a different saloon, where their city council members hung out at night.)

[mreising]

It is the same law in Canada. My son and I were camping in the Northwest Territories several years ago. I pulled the car out of the gravel parking lot of a gas station and the next thing I knew a Mountie was lighting me up. Stopped me for failing to stop when pulling on to a public highway; I have no idea where he came from, there were no cars visible when I pulled out. All in all a good stop as I didn't get the $300 ($240 US) ticket, just a verbal warning and a question on where we were headed. I told him Hay River and he replied, "Why on earth would you want to go there?" I told him it was just the next place up the road.

[147Doc]

I raised the same question (or very similar, anyway) back in Nov '11.

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=57078" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not any definitive outcome in my thread, but I'll wait to see if anything comes of yours.

[JediSkipdogg]

I raised the same question (or very similar, anyway) back in Nov '11.

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=57078" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not any definitive outcome in my thread, but I'll wait to see if anything comes of yours.

The stop sign does not however, read what I posted above for the ones that are at the exit of parking lots onto a public roadway. The stop sign doesn't necessarily carry force of law, but there is a requirement to stop regardless of the sign being there or not.

[HkSniper]

It drives me nuts when people make the excuse "It's private property / parking lot I do not have to stop".

At my old job I saw a rather terrible accident that was the result of this mentality. Car coming in had the right of way and the idiot was blowing stop signs and T-Boned the car. It's a wonder no one was hurt or killed, but it was a big ol' pick-em-up truck vs a hatchback. The hatchback was totaled. If there had been a passenger they would have been seriously hurt / killed.

Does it hurt to just stop for a couple seconds to make sure it's safe? No.

[Beekeeper]

It drives me nuts when people make the excuse "It's private property / parking lot I do not have to stop".

At my old job I saw a rather terrible accident that was the result of this mentality. Car coming in had the right of way and the idiot was blowing stop signs and T-Boned the car. It's a wonder no one was hurt or killed, but it was a big ol' pick-em-up truck vs a hatchback. The hatchback was totaled. If there had been a passenger they would have been seriously hurt / killed.

Does it hurt to just stop for a couple seconds to make sure it's safe? No.

I've seen some dumb stuff done at night in my employer's lot. One crash with a critical injury--someone blew through a stop sign in the lot and hit a motorcyclist. A trooper was rear-ended a few years ago in our lot while running radar. Then, you get the occasional person under the influence of who knows what and cannot figure out how to get back out of the lot.

[charliej47]

I'm not talking about blowing through a stop and I'm not talking about entering a "public road".

I'm saying that the LEO was stating that the stop sign on private property was the same as a stop sign on the public road.

I'm talking about common sense driving where you look both ways before entering the public highway.

[Jim-in-Toledo]

It drives me nuts when people make the excuse "It's private property / parking lot I do not have to stop".

At my old job I saw a rather terrible accident that was the result of this mentality. Car coming in had the right of way and the idiot was blowing stop signs and T-Boned the car. It's a wonder no one was hurt or killed, but it was a big ol' pick-em-up truck vs a hatchback. The hatchback was totaled. If there had been a passenger they would have been seriously hurt / killed.

Does it hurt to just stop for a couple seconds to make sure it's safe? No.

4511.201 Operation off street or highway in willful or wanton disregard of the safety of persons or property.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does the property involved contain twenty or more dwelling units located thereon?

If so you can look at:

For stop signs:
4511.432 Stop signs on private residential road or driveway.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.432" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For speed limits:
4511.211 Establishing speed limit on private road or driveway.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.211" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Other than those, what would the charge be?

Also look at:
4511.16 Unauthorized sign or signal resembling a traffic control device.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4511.16" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ianal, if anyone can show me a different law that applies in Ohio I would be very interested in looking at it.

(edited to add:
The penalty for all of the above is a minor misdemeanor for the first offense.)

[cashman966]

I'm not talking about blowing through a stop and I'm not talking about entering a "public road".

I'm talking about common sense driving where you look both ways before entering the public highway.

You lost me, is there a difference between a public road and a public highway?


That aside, was the stop sign in the right of way?

[pokerdog]

The old wording of 4511.201 was reckless operation of a motor vehicle on private property. New wording keeps it simple. This would be a valid reason for a stop and check you out thing, and maybe find a wanted person, or if past record would warrant it a ticket(or if the LEO was a d..k). Clean history, no warrants then a warning was in line.
That's how the Highway Patrol makes so many felony arrests, off of simple traffic stops.