Reaction with LEO encounters
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- charliej47
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Reaction with LEO encounters
EVERY TIME I have an encounter with the police, I am apprehensive.
More and more I read where encounters are turning bad. More and more I read where encounters are with LEOs that have an attitude that I'm the bad guy and they have the right to do anything they like. I have had LEOs tell me that they know what the law is and will enforce it the way they see fit.
I have not had that many encounters, but the ones I have had for the most part have been where I am concerned for my safety the whole time of the encounter.
It could be because I am participating in these forums and therefore am aware of all the bad things that can go wrong, I don't know.
I know that LEOs have very dangerous jobs and they want to go home at the end of the work day.
I guess I'm saying that I long for the past where encounters with police were more friendly and helpful.
More and more I read where encounters are turning bad. More and more I read where encounters are with LEOs that have an attitude that I'm the bad guy and they have the right to do anything they like. I have had LEOs tell me that they know what the law is and will enforce it the way they see fit.
I have not had that many encounters, but the ones I have had for the most part have been where I am concerned for my safety the whole time of the encounter.
It could be because I am participating in these forums and therefore am aware of all the bad things that can go wrong, I don't know.
I know that LEOs have very dangerous jobs and they want to go home at the end of the work day.
I guess I'm saying that I long for the past where encounters with police were more friendly and helpful.
Charles Johnson Jr
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The Second Amendment is about the right to be able to protect oneself from all who would do us harm including Legislators!
I came into this world screaming and covered in someone Else's blood, don't care if I go out the same way
Everyone who receives the protection of society owes a return for the benefit. John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
(English economist & philosopher. 1806 - 1873)
12GA. pump - Home defense
40 Cal. Main Carry
380 BUG
22lr Live fire practice
The Second Amendment is about the right to be able to protect oneself from all who would do us harm including Legislators!
I came into this world screaming and covered in someone Else's blood, don't care if I go out the same way
Everyone who receives the protection of society owes a return for the benefit. John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
(English economist & philosopher. 1806 - 1873)
- TSiWRX
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Re: Reaction with LEO encounters
This can certainly contribute to your sense of unease.charliej47 wrote: It could be because I am participating in these forums and therefore am aware of all the bad things that can go wrong, I don't know.
The problem with online Forum communities like this is that people come here because they want their voice heard - good or bad, they want to share with like-minded folks.
And more often than not, because of this simple fact, we are made aware of the less pleasant experiences of whatever community it is that we've joined.
Are these problems real?
I don't doubt it for a moment.
However, we must also put these issues in perspective: how many Ohio-CHL holders are there today? How many post here on the Forums? What's the likelihood that any one of them may have had an encounter with LE, on any given day?
Don't get me wrong. I think it's great to be aware of these problems. To be educated. This is actually one of the reasons why I am here - to learn from the wisdom of others who've had to go the way of hard experience.
I'm just saying don't lose sleep over it. At least not too much.
Allen - Shaker Heights, Ohio
- djthomas
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Re: Reaction with LEO encounters
To TSiWRX's point it's only human nature to be biased towards sharing bad experiences. Granted some folks will share any LE experience on this board but I think most people are only moved to speak when something was bad, completely discounting the 5 or 10 positive experiences they had before that. It's the old saw about a satisfied customer will tell one friend but a dissatisfied one will tell 10.
Two additional points from my perspective. First, what makes a good experience good and what makes a bad experience bad? It's subjective. There's more than a few examples of people coming here sharing what they felt was a positive experience only to be told by the armchair crowd that it was a horrendous experience and that the OP should be trying to get the officer fired. Well which is it?
Second keep in mind that the experiences shared only reflect one side of the story. It's missing the other two sides: the officer's perspective and what really happened. There's nothing in the Constitution that says one must be nice to a law enforcement officer. Conversely there's nothing that says a law enforcement officer must be nice to you. Some people like to push the envelope while asserting their rights at the slightest perceived violation. That's going to impact how the encounter goes from there.
Plus there may be stuff that the poster is simply not aware of that shaped the encounter. Would you know if you were overly nervous during a traffic stop? You only know the stops that you've been a part of. You know nothing about the thousands of other people the officer has encountered during his career. Would you know if you were subconsciously bending your elbows towards your firearm? In the average street encounter I'm constantly telling people to keep their hands out of their pockets. Sometimes multiple times in the same encounter. Usually they're not deliberately disobeying an order; their body is subconsciously responding to the stress of the encounter. But by the third reminder I'm usually on my way to being pretty cranky because I don't know if it's nerves or ill intent.
Two additional points from my perspective. First, what makes a good experience good and what makes a bad experience bad? It's subjective. There's more than a few examples of people coming here sharing what they felt was a positive experience only to be told by the armchair crowd that it was a horrendous experience and that the OP should be trying to get the officer fired. Well which is it?
Second keep in mind that the experiences shared only reflect one side of the story. It's missing the other two sides: the officer's perspective and what really happened. There's nothing in the Constitution that says one must be nice to a law enforcement officer. Conversely there's nothing that says a law enforcement officer must be nice to you. Some people like to push the envelope while asserting their rights at the slightest perceived violation. That's going to impact how the encounter goes from there.
Plus there may be stuff that the poster is simply not aware of that shaped the encounter. Would you know if you were overly nervous during a traffic stop? You only know the stops that you've been a part of. You know nothing about the thousands of other people the officer has encountered during his career. Would you know if you were subconsciously bending your elbows towards your firearm? In the average street encounter I'm constantly telling people to keep their hands out of their pockets. Sometimes multiple times in the same encounter. Usually they're not deliberately disobeying an order; their body is subconsciously responding to the stress of the encounter. But by the third reminder I'm usually on my way to being pretty cranky because I don't know if it's nerves or ill intent.
- charliej47
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Re: Reaction with LEO encounters
When I was growing up I was taught to be polite to my elders, strangers and to be helpful to all people.
I can remember having numerous encounters with the police as a child and teen. All of us had fairly good rapport with the local police. we knew most of their names and they knew us.
I would say that things started to change in the 90s where the police stopped being "officer friendly" and started becoming an adversary.
As one person stated most of us only report the bad and not the good. I try to report both. It just seems that there are more bad than good.
In the last 16 months, I have had about 6 encounters. Only one where I was stopped because of a bad light. The other 5 were do to trespass issues and such. All of the other issues I was the innocent party or bystander that got pulled in to the issue. All of the encounters I was treated in such a manner as to make me feel that I was a second class citizen.
I can remember having numerous encounters with the police as a child and teen. All of us had fairly good rapport with the local police. we knew most of their names and they knew us.
I would say that things started to change in the 90s where the police stopped being "officer friendly" and started becoming an adversary.
As one person stated most of us only report the bad and not the good. I try to report both. It just seems that there are more bad than good.
In the last 16 months, I have had about 6 encounters. Only one where I was stopped because of a bad light. The other 5 were do to trespass issues and such. All of the other issues I was the innocent party or bystander that got pulled in to the issue. All of the encounters I was treated in such a manner as to make me feel that I was a second class citizen.
Charles Johnson Jr
12GA. pump - Home defense
40 Cal. Main Carry
380 BUG
22lr Live fire practice
The Second Amendment is about the right to be able to protect oneself from all who would do us harm including Legislators!
I came into this world screaming and covered in someone Else's blood, don't care if I go out the same way
Everyone who receives the protection of society owes a return for the benefit. John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
(English economist & philosopher. 1806 - 1873)
12GA. pump - Home defense
40 Cal. Main Carry
380 BUG
22lr Live fire practice
The Second Amendment is about the right to be able to protect oneself from all who would do us harm including Legislators!
I came into this world screaming and covered in someone Else's blood, don't care if I go out the same way
Everyone who receives the protection of society owes a return for the benefit. John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
(English economist & philosopher. 1806 - 1873)
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Re: Reaction with LEO encounters
I really don't know any butt head cops......I think the BIG majority are nice guys just like me.
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Re: Reaction with LEO encounters
My first interaction with the police happened when I was about 6 years of age.
I have only had a bad encounter with a police officers in the following 60 years. I have worked with them, for them and trained them. I recall one bad encounter; the officer was subsequently disciplined by his chief for failure to act appropriately.
In the other situation, the deputy tried to jack me up for riding a motorcycle in a residential neighborhood. I spoke to his boss, and the sheriff subsequently told the deputy to stay away from me.
I simply believe this statement is fact: Without that thin blue line, the savages would be at our throats.
I have only had a bad encounter with a police officers in the following 60 years. I have worked with them, for them and trained them. I recall one bad encounter; the officer was subsequently disciplined by his chief for failure to act appropriately.
In the other situation, the deputy tried to jack me up for riding a motorcycle in a residential neighborhood. I spoke to his boss, and the sheriff subsequently told the deputy to stay away from me.
I simply believe this statement is fact: Without that thin blue line, the savages would be at our throats.
- BB62
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Re: Reaction with LEO encounters
Maybe you should organize a meet and greet for your area when the weather gets warmer? The opportunity to share stories and contact information, in person, may help you better deal with your concerns and apprehension.charliej47 wrote: EVERY TIME I have an encounter with the police, I am apprehensive.
More and more I read where encounters are turning bad. More and more I read where encounters are with LEOs that have an attitude that I'm the bad guy and they have the right to do anything they like. I have had LEOs tell me that they know what the law is and will enforce it the way they see fit.
I have not had that many encounters, but the ones I have had for the most part have been where I am concerned for my safety the whole time of the encounter...
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)
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- fisher
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Re: Reaction with LEO encounters
I was thinking something even less formal would be in line. Just strike up a conversation with a Leo who you run into. Restaurants, gas stations, festivals, ball games and stores are all casual places for positive encounters.BB62 wrote:Maybe you should organize a meet and greet for your area when the weather gets warmer? The opportunity to share stories and contact information, in person, may help you better deal with your concerns and apprehension.charliej47 wrote: EVERY TIME I have an encounter with the police, I am apprehensive.
More and more I read where encounters are turning bad. More and more I read where encounters are with LEOs that have an attitude that I'm the bad guy and they have the right to do anything they like. I have had LEOs tell me that they know what the law is and will enforce it the way they see fit.
I have not had that many encounters, but the ones I have had for the most part have been where I am concerned for my safety the whole time of the encounter...
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-Joe Deters, Hamilton County Prosecutor
(Chant) Hey Hey, Ho Ho, This Nanny-State Has Got To Go. (Everyone, sing along).....
-Me
" I know what dude I am. I'm the dude playin' the dude, disguised as another dude!"
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- BB62
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Re: Reaction with LEO encounters
I meant a meet & greet with fellow gun carriers - not LEOs.fisher wrote:I was thinking something even less formal would be in line. Just strike up a conversation with a Leo who you run into. Restaurants, gas stations, festivals, ball games and stores are all casual places for positive encounters.BB62 wrote:Maybe you should organize a meet and greet for your area when the weather gets warmer? The opportunity to share stories and contact information, in person, may help you better deal with your concerns and apprehension.charliej47 wrote: EVERY TIME I have an encounter with the police, I am apprehensive.
More and more I read where encounters are turning bad. More and more I read where encounters are with LEOs that have an attitude that I'm the bad guy and they have the right to do anything they like. I have had LEOs tell me that they know what the law is and will enforce it the way they see fit.
I have not had that many encounters, but the ones I have had for the most part have been where I am concerned for my safety the whole time of the encounter...
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)
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- charliej47
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Re: Reaction with LEO encounters
I too believe that we must have laws and people to enforce them.Tweed Ring wrote: I simply believe this statement is fact: Without that thin blue line, the savages would be at our throats.
I just believe that That is all they should be doing, not trying to "lord it" over the rest of us and not treating the average citizen as a second class person or as trash.
Charles Johnson Jr
12GA. pump - Home defense
40 Cal. Main Carry
380 BUG
22lr Live fire practice
The Second Amendment is about the right to be able to protect oneself from all who would do us harm including Legislators!
I came into this world screaming and covered in someone Else's blood, don't care if I go out the same way
Everyone who receives the protection of society owes a return for the benefit. John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
(English economist & philosopher. 1806 - 1873)
12GA. pump - Home defense
40 Cal. Main Carry
380 BUG
22lr Live fire practice
The Second Amendment is about the right to be able to protect oneself from all who would do us harm including Legislators!
I came into this world screaming and covered in someone Else's blood, don't care if I go out the same way
Everyone who receives the protection of society owes a return for the benefit. John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
(English economist & philosopher. 1806 - 1873)
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Re: Reaction with LEO encounters
Obviously, our life experiences are different. When I'm in a jam, I'd run for the police, not away from them.
- deanimator
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Re: Reaction with LEO encounters
I'm from Chicago and I simply believe THIS statement is fact: Sometimes the "thin blue line" ARE the savages at our throats.Tweed Ring wrote:I simply believe this statement is fact: Without that thin blue line, the savages would be at our throats.
Hence, the TOTAL failure to discipline the cops who tried to kill the three motorists in Los Angeles and Torrance, CA.
Life comes at you fast. Be prepared to shoot it in the head when it does.
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Re: Reaction with LEO encounters
I have had different encounters with unfriendly & friendly LEO. I also have worked with them in different jobs I've had. I think it comes down to if I give respect I will receive it back. However I tend to give what I receive from anyone.
Oh, I do have several friends that are LEO. Everyone has a bad day sometimes.
Just my two cents worth.
Rat
Oh, I do have several friends that are LEO. Everyone has a bad day sometimes.
Just my two cents worth.
Rat
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Re: Reaction with LEO encounters
"Everyone has a bad day sometime." Sure do....but when a LEO has one it could mean a lot worse things...
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Re: Reaction with LEO encounters
Or, you could be like me. I don't have a very high opinion of human beings in general. Give one of those same human beings a badge, a gun and authority over others...and you have all the ingredients for trouble. If we expect LEO's to behave in a better manner than the average citizen...then we can expect to be disappointed on a regular basis.
Give em' Hell Pike!!!