Reaction with LEO encounters

[glocksmith]

Friendly ONLY comes with me knowing you. I don't WANT that level or frequency of contact with police.
I don't trust strangers, and every cop I don't know is just that, a stranger of unknown character and intentions. I work hard to avoid unnecessary contact with them. I'm not looking to be friends with the police. I'm looking to avoid them.

My thinking exactly. Avoidance is the best policy...even if you are a LAC goodguy.

[Tweed Ring]

Many times the R&F LEO sees any apology or sign that he said or did anything wrong, and acknowledging same, as a sign of weakness.

I get that. But it was a traffic stop, not a suspected B&E. Also, how hard would it have been to get confirmation on what he believed was a violation on my part? I realize I probably in the minority on this one, but it was a matter of my integrity being challenged. (plus I was having a bad day so he should have just ripped up the ticket!) I believe respect is/should be earned. Isn't interaction with the public part of the training? One would think so. Of course in the last few years, in Dayton all you was spell your name right (within three attempts) to be accepted by the academy. Sadly, that's hardly an accurate reflection of most Dayton cops. It's a reflection of social engineering at it's best.

I understand your point. I, too, hate to have my integrity challenged.

Some LEO's develop an "us versus them" mentality. Some of them are badge-heavy. But, once one develops the mental muscle memory about taking no crap, and cutting no slack, it's hard to change up.

What I have found is the truly competent, confident officers learn from their mistakes, and that makes them better officers, better FTO'S, better candidates for supervisory positions, and better candidates for administrative positions. A few, who either cannot or will not learn, are either terminated for cause, or do tend to remain churlish idiots who enjoy making life difficult for the rest of us .

[deanimator]

A few, who either cannot or will not learn, are either terminated for cause, or do tend to remain churlish idiots who enjoy making life difficult for the rest of us .

What I find amusing is the whining they do when a knowledgeable person who's not easily intimidated turns the tables on them and drags them through every conceivable administrative and legal knothole.

[charliej47]

I have said it before and I'll say it again, I was raised to be polite. I was taken to the woodshed EVERYTIME I was impolite to anyone!

I was taught that the police were our friends and we could go to them anytime with any issue.

This all started to change in the 9-'s and it has gotten worse for the most part. I now find politeness in the minority when dealing with LEOs. I have had to learn that "THEY ARE ALWAYS RIGHT AND I AM ALWAYS WRONG"!

[deanimator]

I was taught that the police were our friends and we could go to them anytime with any issue.

I was born and raised on the South Side of Chicago, so I was never afflicted with that fairytale.

[charliej47]

I was taught that the police were our friends and we could go to them anytime with any issue.

I was born and raised on the South Side of Chicago, so I was never afflicted with that fairytale.

Isn't Chicago a war zone like Iraq and a couple of other places such as Detroit and NYC?

[deanimator]

I was taught that the police were our friends and we could go to them anytime with any issue.

I was born and raised on the South Side of Chicago, so I was never afflicted with that fairytale.

Isn't Chicago a war zone like Iraq and a couple of other places such as Detroit and NYC?

Due to some bad blood between my mother and myself, I stayed away for thirteen years.

When I finally went back to visit her, I took a drive over to our old neighborhood where I grew up in the '60s, the area around 69th and Indiana Ave.

I was out of the Army long before 9/11, but the business areas in the neighborhood looked to me just the the news footage of Baghdad. EVERY business that wasn't open twenty four hours had those steel roll-up gates over the store fronts.

If you take Amtrak from Cleveland to Chicago, you'll be amazed by the view as the train pull into downtown Chicago. It literally looks like a human zoo, since EVERY home that can afford it has high wrought iron fences and gates, and bars on the windows and doors. When nobody could own a gun, and the police were COMMITTING home invasions rather than investigating them, what else COULD people do?

[welshj]

My one and only encounter in awhile? 15 yrs?

I had been home from Iraq for about a year, and was having a hard time re-adjusting.
My PTSD was kicking pretty good, and the wife and I got into a huge fight...
I had lost my temper, and left the house to separate and cool off.
I got a few blocks away and pulled over to try and chill. I had forgotten my wallet, my house keys... etc.

So I went back to the house to find the front door locked. I don't know why... but this just tipped my scale.
I kicked my front door in, taking out the frame and all with it. I secured my wallet and crap, and before I left-
I secured all my weapons. Emptied mags, locked out chambers and cleared everything. It was clearing the shotgun that the wife heard.
it was then that she called the cops as I left again. I was just reacting and making snap decisions as trained.
figured neither of us needed access to firearms just then.

I got to the end of my street barely as the police cars arrived at high speed. I just pulled over soon as I saw the first one turn.
I shut off my truck, threw the keys on the dash, and put both hands on the door in plain sight. I was ordered out of my truck at gunpoint.
There were three red dots floating on my chest. officer ordered me to face my vehicle and place my hands on my head, and then go to my knees.

As the officer approached to cuff me, I stated simply, and clearly:
"officer, you will have no problems or resistance from me of any kind." "I will comply with any direction you give."
In a military town- he asked if I was active army. Told him no, but that I had been recently, and had an idea how he was feeling and would get nothing but respect from me.

As the officers saw that I was complaint, and non-combative- The attitudes, and treatment I received changed.
They relaxed a bit, and were respectful to me as well. One of the officers placed me in his car, and as I have nerve damage issues and was in some pain...
He relented and adjusted the cuffs to place my hands in front rather than behind.

Things were talked out, I was never placed under arrest, no charges were pressed by myself or my wife. So they let me go.
As they let me go, the officers thanked me for working with them and resolving things in a calm quiet way.

It kind of sounds like BS, but it was just an argument- and it had nothing to do with them.
Don't get me wrong, I've been shot at. My adrenaline was going crazy...

But treating them how I would want them to treat me- worked.

[carmen fovozzo]

Thanks Sarge for sharing your story with us....hope your doing OK...

[OhioPaints]

To respond to the OP's concerns, I personally have had maybe a dozen or more encounters while armed since getting my CHL. A couple of traffic stops, a wreck, park ranger checking registrations, working with park rangers on a rescue, etc. NONE have been the least problem. I might even guess that the CHL got me more friendly treatment than otherwise. Also in a couple of situations I was open carrying and I didn't notify and nothing was said.

[Metal1]

This misinformation about LEO's having a "dangerous" job gets repeated over and over. It doesn't even make the top 10 in most years. Even then it isn't because of shootings or inherent danger but traffic accidents.

Nest time you see a roofer or a fisherman you'll relaize a dangerous job.

[JU-87]

This misinformation about LEO's having a "dangerous" job gets repeated over and over. It doesn't even make the top 10 in most years. Even then it isn't because of shootings or inherent danger but traffic accidents.

Nest time you see a roofer or a fisherman you'll relaize a dangerous job.

THANK YOU! That' s a fact, accordng to Labor Statstcs. If there job is "so hard", they should quit. I have no sympathy for people who whine about there career choice.

I had one positive contact with Strongsville,Ohio PD when I was "hit-skipped". I posted this several years ago.

I have to wonder: are some posters going to stupid places, with stupid people, to do stupid things? Are you attracting "unwanted attention" to yourself?

Or...

Are there too many abusive LEO's?

Maybe both?

[OhioPaints]

Are there too many abusive LEO's?

Since LEO's are operating under the color of law and have the ultimate power of the gun and the badge, ANY abusive LEO's are too many (just like ANY abusive spouses are too many.)

Of course, in any large group, there will be some misfits.

In my limited experience, some cops are very good, some are acceptable and a few are abusive. That will never change as long as we use humans. However, we can work to reduce the number of abusive cops.

[deanimator]

I have to wonder: are some posters going to stupid places, with stupid people, to do stupid things? Are you attracting "unwanted attention" to yourself?

Or...

Are there too many abusive LEO's?

Maybe both?

There used to be a guy on another forum who would pretty much defend literally ANYTHING a cop did. He practically tripped all over himself to render them extra-legal "courtesies". He was full of scorn for those who weren't similarly obsequious toward the police.

What I find most interesting was that, by his own admission, he had a LONG history of illegal and ill-judged behavior on his part [supposedly] when he was younger.

My comment to him was something to the effect of, "YOUR history of bad behavior in NO way imposes upon me a duty to waive MY rights or display fawning servility towards the police."

Are there too many abusive LEOs? I always ask the fanbois, "How many SHOULD there be?"

[deanimator]

Of course, in any large group, there will be some misfits.

Of course you have to define "misfit".

Is it a cop who violates society's norms, or is it a cop who violates insular group norms of the police?

Society's norms say that if you witness a murder, that you should report it. Police norms say that if you witness another cop murder somebody, you keep your mouth shut. Hence the Danziger Bridge and Kathryn Johnston cases. I'm always bemused by cops who complain about citizens extolling the "stop snitching" culture, when police are the biggest practitioners of it in the country. How many of Daniel Harless's partners reported his behavior?

In my limited experience, some cops are very good, some are acceptable and a few are abusive. That will never change as long as we use humans. However, we can work to reduce the number of abusive cops.

I suppose it depends upon how you define "abusive". On another forum, there were some present and or former cops and supporters who simply would not countenance ANY criticism of the LAPD cops who tried to kill (and succeeded in wounding) the two Hispanic newspaper delivery women. ANYONE who condemned their actions was simply labeled a "cop hater". And let me reiterate that I'm not talking about blanket condemnations of the police, but criticism of THAT specific incident. If you weren't a cop and weren't THERE, you had NO RIGHT to comment.

If NOTHING cops do CAN be abusive, there's nothing to "reduce"...