University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

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slim
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University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by slim »

A couple of times over the last year or so I've put on my old rucksack and hiked around my local area. I OC my sidearm when I do this because it's extremely hard to pull a gun out from underneath 70lbs of kit. I've passed the cops on foot and waved, said hello, and had no issues. Today was a different story.

I'd been out for about two hours and was on my way back. My route took me along Central Parkway and Ludlow (walked right in front of the police station twice) and then up Clifton avenue by UC. I stayed along the sidewalk on the public street (didn't cut through or anything) and continued on up to where all the food places are. I stopped at the ATM and when I was done I noticed UC Police parking across the street and getting out. I figured they were there to get food as well. I started walking and heard the unmistakable police voice, "Sir!" I turned to talk to them and they asked what I was doing. I told them I was out exercising, hence the whole reflective belt (PT Belt for all you vets out there.). They informed me they'd received several calls about a man with a weapon and the city was out looking for him. Several city units had passed me all along my route and I actually thought they looked like they were looking for someone. But, I was walking steadily along the main road and there's no way they could've missed me so I didn't think much of it.

Back to the UC cops. They asked if I had a gun and I told them I had my sidearm on my belt. One of them told me to show him and I just kind of stuck my hip out for him to see it better. (It is open but there's a lot of crap on my belt so one would have to really look for it to see it.) They asked why I had a gun and I told them, "I'm out walking the streets by myself. I mean, you have a gun. Why do you have a gun?" Then he pointed to the knife on my shoulder strap and said, "And you have a knife. Is that a knife?" I confirmed to Captain Obvious that it was, indeed, a knife.

Then they asked for ID and I started to get all, "What do you need my ID for I'm just out here exercising and..." the other one busted in, "You have every right to be out here we're just..." so I stopped 'em both and said, "OK. I'll show you my ID. Lets just step over here and I'll take my gloves off, get it out for you." The mood immediately went from somewhat confrontational to just a couple of buddies standing around talking. They were never "Highway Patrol" assertive and only tried to keep the upper hand. Once I offered up my ID (and CHL so they'd know I can pass a background check) they were immediately calm and even somewhat apologetic. "Yeah we're just making sure everything's alright. We got lots of calls and you know how people are nowadays with all the terrorism stuff." I tried to get through to them that it's normal for Americans to walk around with guns and this sort of thing should happen more often instead of less often.

Around that time City rolled up and asked if they had everything under control. They said they were just gonna run me through but City said, "Well, he's open carrying so there's nothing we can do about that. They do that stuff to get us on camera and.... just let him go." Then drove off. They immediately gave me back my IDs and said, "Have a nice day. You sir, are free to go. Sorry for the inconvenience" etc., etc.

I told them sorry for causing a scene and I could understand why they'd want to stop me. They said they get calls about the ROTC too so no worries. We gave each other the nod and parted ways. The whole encounter lasted maybe two minutes and other than the initial, "Well, here we go." it wasn't an unpleasant experience, we actually parted ways on a good note.

For all you Monday Morning QBs out there, this is what I looked like. Do you really want that guy walking through your neighborhood without the police at least saying hello?
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BobK
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Re: University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by BobK »

slim wrote:For all you Monday Morning QBs out there, this is what I looked like. Do you really want that guy walking through your neighborhood without the police at least saying hello?
Image
I'd have no problem with you walking through my neighborhood and would prefer the police were not called.
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Re: University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by carmen fovozzo »

I have no problem with you walking in my neighborhood either....I think you looka movaless....
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glocksmith
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Re: University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by glocksmith »

Camo tends to freak people out...throw in an OC and you're guaranteed an encounter every time.
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JustaShooter
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Re: University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by JustaShooter »

glocksmith wrote:Camo tends to freak people out...throw in an OC and you're guaranteed an encounter every time.
I had to wonder what he was talking about at first - you see, my wife and I are from Northeast Tennessee...
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glocksmith
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Re: University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by glocksmith »

JustaShooter wrote:
glocksmith wrote:Camo tends to freak people out...throw in an OC and you're guaranteed an encounter every time.
I had to wonder what he was talking about at first - you see, my wife and I are from Northeast Tennessee...
Clifton, the UC Campus area...and Cincinnati in general are a different world when it comes to OC. I spent many of my younger years on campus, but I avoid it like the plague these days. Too densely populated and too liberal for my tastes.
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meadeam
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Re: University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by meadeam »

I wear my dad's old 3/4 length Army jacket (I think I am retiring it this year because it is getting pretty old). When I first moved to Mariemont OH from Seattle, the local constabulary stopped me several times for simply walking after dark in a town where bearded men in Army coats don't walk after dark. I walk a lot, always have, and I was very offended that I could not walk around my own neighborhood after dark without being asked for my ID. I was cooperative on all occasions, and I was on my way. Eventually they must have started recognizing me. In a big city like Seattle, a bearded man in an Army coat at night looks absolutley normal (sadly, he may be a homeless vet) but in Mariemont it looks suspect.

My point I guess is that you have to consider the context when open carrying. I think the police are obligated to at least have a look if something is out of the ordinary, though it may inconvenience us. I do resent being asked for my ID, and had I wanted to play sidwalk attorney, I probably could have done so to make a point. I say good on Slim for staying calm and being a good ambassador.
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meadeam
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Re: University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by meadeam »

meadeam wrote: My point I guess is that you have to consider the context when open carrying. I think the police are obligated to at least have a look if something is out of the ordinary, though it may inconvenience us. I do resent being asked for my ID, and had I wanted to play sidwalk attorney, I probably could have done so to make a point. I say good on Slim for staying calm and being a good ambassador.
To be clear, I was never carrying when I was stopped, but I think the point is the same... I stood out from my surroundings.
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Re: University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by Cruiser »

Mercer County Ohio is full of hunters this time of year, so Camo is common. Actually non-military Camo is common the year round. I have Camo shirts and outer wear, and I don't hunt! I tend to dress like the guys I hang out with.
I have always been a believer of dressing for the occasion and surroundings.
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BB62
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Re: University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by BB62 »

slim wrote:...For all you Monday Morning QBs out there, this is what I looked like. Do you really want that guy walking through your neighborhood without the police at least saying hello?
The beat police, NO. The SWAT team - definitely!! :wink: :wink:
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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BB62
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Re: University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by BB62 »

meadeam wrote:...My point I guess is that you have to consider the context when open carrying. I think the police are obligated to at least have a look if something is out of the ordinary, though it may inconvenience us...
How are people inconvenienced if the police merely "have a look"? In your opinion, what behavior/actions are okay on the part of the police and what are not?
meadeam wrote:...My point I guess is that you have to consider the context when open carrying. I think the police are obligated to at least have a look if something is out of the ordinary, though it may inconvenience us. I do resent being asked for my ID, and had I wanted to play sidwalk attorney, I probably could have done so to make a point. I say good on Slim for staying calm and being a good ambassador.
What makes a "good ambassador" in your opinion?
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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meadeam
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Re: University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by meadeam »

BB62 wrote:
meadeam wrote:...My point I guess is that you have to consider the context when open carrying. I think the police are obligated to at least have a look if something is out of the ordinary, though it may inconvenience us...
How are people inconvenienced if the police merely "have a look"? In your opinion, what behavior/actions are okay on the part of the police and what are not?
meadeam wrote:...My point I guess is that you have to consider the context when open carrying. I think the police are obligated to at least have a look if something is out of the ordinary, though it may inconvenience us. I do resent being asked for my ID, and had I wanted to play sidwalk attorney, I probably could have done so to make a point. I say good on Slim for staying calm and being a good ambassador.
What makes a "good ambassador" in your opinion?
I used "having a look" in a very general sense. It could mean just that, or stopping to chat about guns and the weather. I think that is ok. I don't think asking for an ID accomplishes much, but in my case I would probably agree just to keep things moving.

I think being a good ambassador means keeping one's cool and letting the cops know you are just a guy out for a walk, and not someone who is going to cause trouble.
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Re: University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by Sevens »

A similar look and one less firearm was the opening scene in First Blood :lol:
You actually look like Dynamike before he trimmed back the beard, but you'd need a mohawk under the hat.

To those who know the movie represented by your T-shirt, it certainly does appear that your whole purpose for going out like that is to be seen and attract attention.

With your reference to MMQ'ing, it sure seems like you are asking for input. So here's one to ponder:
Let's say you're out in that get-up and you are standing there doing EXACTLY what you described and having a good & productive conversation with some cops. If there had happened to be some kind of a genuine THREAT very near by (unrelated armed robbery, crazy domestic event, ultra-rare ACTUAL terrorist act), what happens NEXT?

I would guess... you become a target for -anyone- who is armed, except those two cops... or MAYBE those two cops also, who wonder if you're an involved party?
Target for another (less conspicuous) armed citizen.
Target for -ANY- other responding LE.
Target for any bad people (unless they see the get-up and think "Hey, that's my cousin Frankie!")

Chance?! Hovering near zero, likely. But it's one MMQ'ing angle that might have otherwise not come up in discussion.

FWIW, I'm one of the many who support your right to do exactly what you do, but wonder about the productivity of it.
Where some think it would be terrific to have you walking around in their neighborhood, my reaction would probably be similar to what Cincy PD said: "Yeah, he's okay, let him go, he's not going to hurt anyone, he's just trying to get us on camera."
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BB62
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Re: University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by BB62 »

meadeam wrote:
BB62 wrote:
meadeam wrote:...My point I guess is that you have to consider the context when open carrying. I think the police are obligated to at least have a look if something is out of the ordinary, though it may inconvenience us...
How are people inconvenienced if the police merely "have a look"? In your opinion, what behavior/actions are okay on the part of the police and what are not?
meadeam wrote:...My point I guess is that you have to consider the context when open carrying. I think the police are obligated to at least have a look if something is out of the ordinary, though it may inconvenience us. I do resent being asked for my ID, and had I wanted to play sidwalk attorney, I probably could have done so to make a point. I say good on Slim for staying calm and being a good ambassador.
What makes a "good ambassador" in your opinion?
I used "having a look" in a very general sense. It could mean just that, or stopping to chat about guns and the weather. I think that is ok. I don't think asking for an ID accomplishes much, but in my case I would probably agree just to keep things moving.

I think being a good ambassador means keeping one's cool and letting the cops know you are just a guy out for a walk, and not someone who is going to cause trouble.
Hmmm. Thank you.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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BB62
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Re: University of Cincinnati and Cincinnati PD

Post by BB62 »

According to the FOP, it appears that OC is RAS.

Found on OCDO: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showt ... terry-stop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories ... -fear.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"...But under the bill, he said, an officer would be limited in taking such steps because he or she would need probable cause to stop the person — meaning the person would have to do something that appeared to warrant an arrest..."
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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