Pickaway County Sheriff
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Pickaway County Sheriff
I had a Pickaway County Sheriff *sargent* start to overstep his boundary tonight on me carrying my firearm.
First of all I was at a "car event" when the sheriff's pulled up. Probably 50 or so people. They asked for ID's to make sure no one had any warrants, so I handed him my CHL and my License, told him "Here are both of mine as I am armed." He asked "Who handed me the handgun license" (Like I didnt say anything) and I said "Me, I gave you both to inform you.... Thank you for telling everyone that I am armed." So he ran through the ID's and got everyone cleared and asked "There are multiple people here who have CHL, Who here is actually carrying?" Everyone replied with "Not me." I said "I am, thank you AGAIN for letting everyone know I am armed." He said he wanted to talk to ME after he was done with everyone.
So he pulled me to the side and asked, "Why are you carrying a firearm here?" I replied with "I carry my firearm everywhere I go, for my safety. What better time to carry a firearm when at a car event at midnight, with 50 people you don't know?" He said "I don't think you should carry a firearm to an event like this." I said "Who are you to tell me when I SHOULD and SHOULD NOT carry my firearm? Why would I feel safe around people I don't know, and don't know if anyone is Illegally carrying? I do NOT appreciate you telling everyone that I am carrying a firearm. If you felt safe, maybe you should have left your firearm in the vehicle. For the people who had their CHL and did NOT have their firearm, why even have a CHL." He didn't have much to say after that, and told me that I was free to go.
Our car event consists of hanging out and talking cars. Unfortunately being somewhere public with that many cars they want to make sure nothing bad is going on.
First of all I was at a "car event" when the sheriff's pulled up. Probably 50 or so people. They asked for ID's to make sure no one had any warrants, so I handed him my CHL and my License, told him "Here are both of mine as I am armed." He asked "Who handed me the handgun license" (Like I didnt say anything) and I said "Me, I gave you both to inform you.... Thank you for telling everyone that I am armed." So he ran through the ID's and got everyone cleared and asked "There are multiple people here who have CHL, Who here is actually carrying?" Everyone replied with "Not me." I said "I am, thank you AGAIN for letting everyone know I am armed." He said he wanted to talk to ME after he was done with everyone.
So he pulled me to the side and asked, "Why are you carrying a firearm here?" I replied with "I carry my firearm everywhere I go, for my safety. What better time to carry a firearm when at a car event at midnight, with 50 people you don't know?" He said "I don't think you should carry a firearm to an event like this." I said "Who are you to tell me when I SHOULD and SHOULD NOT carry my firearm? Why would I feel safe around people I don't know, and don't know if anyone is Illegally carrying? I do NOT appreciate you telling everyone that I am carrying a firearm. If you felt safe, maybe you should have left your firearm in the vehicle. For the people who had their CHL and did NOT have their firearm, why even have a CHL." He didn't have much to say after that, and told me that I was free to go.
Our car event consists of hanging out and talking cars. Unfortunately being somewhere public with that many cars they want to make sure nothing bad is going on.
- pirateguy191
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Re: Pickaway County Sheriff
Did he really have right to ID anybody?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
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"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
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Re: Pickaway County Sheriff
No one committed a crime or was being detained. We were just all standing around talking cars.
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Re: Pickaway County Sheriff
A great question! I say no.pirateguy191 wrote:Did he really have right to ID anybody?
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Re: Pickaway County Sheriff
Where was this event being held? (Sometimes it helps me to get a little context.)
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
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Re: Pickaway County Sheriff
A great opening for pointing out the reason we like to see a general Location in a members Profile.Brian D. wrote:Where was this event being held? (Sometimes it helps me to get a little context.)
Abandon ye all HOPE!
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Re: Pickaway County Sheriff
Newbie problems.
I live in Fairfield county. We were on the border of Franklin and Pickaway county.
Its a spot we always meet up to talk cars. I have never been told we are not to be there until last night.
I live in Fairfield county. We were on the border of Franklin and Pickaway county.
Its a spot we always meet up to talk cars. I have never been told we are not to be there until last night.
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Re: Pickaway County Sheriff
I was looking for private property versus a public park or whatever. In town or rural. Trying to compare this with what others have experienced, especially with firearms involved.
My group of pals shoot on two different pieces of farm property. One is not too far from town, the other more secluded. We've had the county police show up at both places a couple times through the years. In one instance a deputy initially asked us all for ID's. We were polite but said "No thanks; you can see we've got a safe range setup here--what sort of call did you get?" On the other occasions the deputies took a look at what were doing and were quickly on their way, no ID request. One time a sergeant was kinda upset with his dispatch desk because we'd notified the sheriff's office a day ahead of time and told them there'd be lots of shooting both daytime and even after dark. However the info wasn't passed along to his shift, and it wan't the first time that happened.
My point is there's more going on at the cops' end of things sometimes than we realize. But given Rocky31186's account of the proceedings it sounds like the police went a little farther than needed or appropriate. I was trying to glean whether or not the deputies should have known about the car guys' get togethers if it's a regular happening.
My group of pals shoot on two different pieces of farm property. One is not too far from town, the other more secluded. We've had the county police show up at both places a couple times through the years. In one instance a deputy initially asked us all for ID's. We were polite but said "No thanks; you can see we've got a safe range setup here--what sort of call did you get?" On the other occasions the deputies took a look at what were doing and were quickly on their way, no ID request. One time a sergeant was kinda upset with his dispatch desk because we'd notified the sheriff's office a day ahead of time and told them there'd be lots of shooting both daytime and even after dark. However the info wasn't passed along to his shift, and it wan't the first time that happened.
My point is there's more going on at the cops' end of things sometimes than we realize. But given Rocky31186's account of the proceedings it sounds like the police went a little farther than needed or appropriate. I was trying to glean whether or not the deputies should have known about the car guys' get togethers if it's a regular happening.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
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- MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Pickaway County Sheriff
The REAL reason for finding out where this event took place is in case I want to go dance around while open carrying.
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Re: Pickaway County Sheriff
The spot we go to is a dead end road with a turn around. We all back our vehicles in and talk cars. Its behind rickenbacher airport by 23.
This is my third time dealing with an officer. So anything I should or shouldn't have done please tell me so I know next time.
This is my third time dealing with an officer. So anything I should or shouldn't have done please tell me so I know next time.
- charliej47
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Re: Pickaway County Sheriff
I would not have "presented my papers", but when asked, I would have informed only if I was CC. I can be wrong, but I can't find where I am required to provide ID when I am walking around.
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12GA. pump - Home defense
40 Cal. Main Carry
380 BUG
22lr Live fire practice
The Second Amendment is about the right to be able to protect oneself from all who would do us harm including Legislators!
I came into this world screaming and covered in someone Else's blood, don't care if I go out the same way
Everyone who receives the protection of society owes a return for the benefit. John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
(English economist & philosopher. 1806 - 1873)
- Bianchi?
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Re: Pickaway County Sheriff
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;charliej47 wrote: I would not have "presented my papers", but when asked, I would have informed only if I was CC. I can be wrong, but I can't find where I am required to provide ID when I am walking around.
Seems like one of those "gotchya" laws, and one of those laws that would HIGHLY benefit from the use of a voice recorder.2921.29 Failure to disclose personal information.
(A) No person who is in a public place shall refuse to disclose the person's name, address, or date of birth, when requested by a law enforcement officer who reasonably suspects either of the following:
(1) The person is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a criminal offense.
(2) The person witnessed any of the following:
(a) An offense of violence that would constitute a felony under the laws of this state;
(b) A felony offense that causes or results in, or creates a substantial risk of, serious physical harm to another person or to property;
(c) Any attempt or conspiracy to commit, or complicity in committing, any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section;
(d) Any conduct reasonably indicating that any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section or any attempt, conspiracy, or complicity described in division (A)(2)(c) of this section has been, is being, or is about to be committed.
(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of failure to disclose one's personal information, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.
(C) Nothing in this section requires a person to answer any questions beyond that person's name, address, or date of birth. Nothing in this section authorizes a law enforcement officer to arrest a person for not providing any information beyond that person's name, address, or date of birth or for refusing to describe the offense observed.
(D) It is not a violation of this section to refuse to answer a question that would reveal a person's age or date of birth if age is an element of the crime that the person is suspected of committing.
Effective Date: 04-14-2006
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- JustJack
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Re: Pickaway County Sheriff
Not really sure what you mean by "gotchya". Nothing in there says you have to provide ID, just your name, address, OR date of birth, and only if the Officer had RAS that you are, are about to, or have already committed a crime.Bianchi? wrote:Seems like one of those "gotchya" laws, and one of those laws that would HIGHLY benefit from the use of a voice recorder.2921.29 Failure to disclose personal information.
(A) No person who is in a public place shall refuse to disclose the person's name, address, or date of birth, when requested by a law enforcement officer who reasonably suspects either of the following:
(1) The person is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a criminal offense.
(2) The person witnessed any of the following:
(a) An offense of violence that would constitute a felony under the laws of this state;
(b) A felony offense that causes or results in, or creates a substantial risk of, serious physical harm to another person or to property;
(c) Any attempt or conspiracy to commit, or complicity in committing, any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section;
(d) Any conduct reasonably indicating that any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section or any attempt, conspiracy, or complicity described in division (A)(2)(c) of this section has been, is being, or is about to be committed.
(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of failure to disclose one's personal information, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.
(C) Nothing in this section requires a person to answer any questions beyond that person's name, address, or date of birth. Nothing in this section authorizes a law enforcement officer to arrest a person for not providing any information beyond that person's name, address, or date of birth or for refusing to describe the offense observed.
(D) It is not a violation of this section to refuse to answer a question that would reveal a person's age or date of birth if age is an element of the crime that the person is suspected of committing.
Effective Date: 04-14-2006
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- JustaShooter
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Re: Pickaway County Sheriff
Just checking, JustJack, but by the emphasis you placed on the word OR are you reading that you don't have to provide name when asked (assuming RAS)? Because that's not how I read it - I read it as you have to provide any or all of those when asked, assuming the officer has RAS.JustJack wrote:Not really sure what you mean by "gotchya". Nothing in there says you have to provide ID, just your name, address, OR date of birth, and only if the Officer had RAS that you are, are about to, or have already committed a crime.
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- JustJack
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Re: Pickaway County Sheriff
I was reading that way, but since you asked I looked back and I can see the other side of that. I now think it says you cannot refuse to disclose those 3 things, if the officer has RAS. However, it still does not say "No person who is in a public place shall refuse to produce their State or Federally issued Identification Card, when requested."JustaShooter wrote:Just checking, JustJack, but by the emphasis you placed on the word OR are you reading that you don't have to provide name when asked (assuming RAS)? Because that's not how I read it - I read it as you have to provide any or all of those when asked, assuming the officer has RAS.
IANAL, YMMV, other standard disclaimers, yada, yada, yada, etc, ad nauseum, in infinitum.
"If stupidity was painful, I would be deaf from all the screaming." - Samuel A. Grim
"If stupidity was painful, I would be deaf from all the screaming." - Samuel A. Grim