Another moron loses his CHL

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FN Enter
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Another moron loses his CHL

Post by FN Enter »

Copied this from the Akron police reports that I read daily. I deleted his address as I'm not 100% sure if leaving it is against the TOS.
Jeffrey M Grimm, 26, Massillon, Ohio was charged with Improper Handling, Weapons while Intoxicated, Discharging Firearm, Fail to Notify an Open Container. Officer responded to a shots fired call near S Arlington and Pardee. When they arrived they observed Jeffrey standing outside his car. He was asked if he had any weapons and he responded "yes". He was found to be in possession of a loaded 9mm handgun. He had a CCW but did not inform officer of this information. He had an open bottle of Labatt Blue in his vehicle. He was found to have fired two shots from his gun.
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Re: Another moron loses his CHL

Post by Brian D. »

Was the bottle cap on that tight? And, did he really miss it with the first round?

Okay, I should be capable of a better response than this but who knows, that might be exactly how it went down. :?
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Re: Another moron loses his CHL

Post by WayneB »

FN Enter wrote:Copied this from the Akron police reports that I read daily. I deleted his address as I'm not 100% sure if leaving it is against the TOS.
Jeffrey M Grimm, 26, Massillon, Ohio was charged with Improper Handling, Weapons while Intoxicated, Discharging Firearm, Fail to Notify an Open Container. Officer responded to a shots fired call near S Arlington and Pardee. When they arrived they observed Jeffrey standing outside his car. He was asked if he had any weapons and he responded "yes". He was found to be in possession of a loaded 9mm handgun. He had a CCW but did not inform officer of this information. He had an open bottle of Labatt Blue in his vehicle. He was found to have fired two shots from his gun.
regarding only the CHL notification issue above, the officers observed (did not approach), then asked if he had any weapons, to which he responded "yes".

Should he have said "yes and I have a CHL" to avoid that one particular charge? Or was he already at the point of "not informing" when he answered "yes", because he didn't yell to the officers before they approached.

(Please understand this question has only to do with the "fail to notify" as any of us could be in that situation. "Hey you - do you have any weapons? Yes officer" -- then boom, get charged with failure to notify.)
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Re: Another moron loses his CHL

Post by Whirlwind06 »

WayneB wrote:
regarding only the CHL notification issue above, the officers observed (did not approach), then asked if he had any weapons, to which he responded "yes".

Should he have said "yes and I have a CHL" to avoid that one particular charge? Or was he already at the point of "not informing" when he answered "yes", because he didn't yell to the officers before they approached.

(Please understand this question has only to do with the "fail to notify" as any of us could be in that situation. "Hey you - do you have any weapons? Yes officer" -- then boom, get charged with failure to notify.)
I think the "do you have any weapons?" is part of the SOP line of questioning along with: do you have any drugs, have you been drinking? etc.

Maybe if he would have said "Yes I am a CHL holder and I'm armed" he would have not been charged with it.
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Re: Another moron loses his CHL

Post by milligan740 »

Hate to see stories like this. This is exactly what the anti-gunners tout when they rail against concealed carry. People like this are not doing the rest of us any favors.
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Re: Another moron loses his CHL

Post by SMMAssociates »

FN Enter:

Can't speak authoritatively, but I'd expect that posting contact information would be a no-no.

I expect that failing to notify would be a lesser included offense, if he was charged at all....

(Short translation: If you park your car in front of a hydrant and then run in and rob a grocery store, the parking issue probably would be ignored, or treated as a minor issue. Since a GUN!!!! is involved, though, about anything could happen.)

To me, notifying at the point the Officer approached him is just plain silly, but probably wouldn't make much difference. He's likely cooked on having a CHL....

Just IMHO/IANAL....

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Re: Another moron loses his CHL

Post by fisher »

So he is unarmed, outside of his vehicle, which has a loaded gun inside, and is in trouble for failing to notify about the contents of his vehicle?
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Re: Another moron loses his CHL

Post by carmen fovozzo »

Beer and guns, sound familiar..We all know they just don't mix....Better he gets his but kicked now then maybe something more serious down the road... :(
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Re: Another moron loses his CHL

Post by docachna »

I agree with the moron part.

However:

IF he was standing outside the vehicle, and IF the weapon was inside his vehicle, he was not carrying a weapon - either inside or outside a vehicle. If not carrying, no duty to notify. If the weapon was in the car, it doesn't matter whether he's standing by the driver's door, or sitting across the street at a McD's -- the fact remains that he's not carrying. But that's IF both the above apply.

Now, I fully realize that he can be charged with any number of things, but making them stick is another kettle of fish. Sounds like a bit of "stacking charges" to me.
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Re: Another moron loses his CHL

Post by carmen fovozzo »

docachna wrote:I agree with the moron part.

However:

IF he was standing outside the vehicle, and IF the weapon was inside his vehicle, he was not carrying a weapon - either inside or outside a vehicle. If not carrying, no duty to notify. If the weapon was in the car, it doesn't matter whether he's standing by the driver's door, or sitting across the street at a McD's -- the fact remains that he's not carrying. But that's IF both the above apply.

Now, I fully realize that he can be charged with any number of things, but making them stick is another kettle of fish. Sounds like a bit of "stacking charges" to me.
I believe he is still in possesion.....If there were drugs in the car,I believe he could be charged with possesion, if he is the only one around or in the car...Imo
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Re: Another moron loses his CHL

Post by sodbuster95 »

carmen fovozzo wrote:I believe he is still in possesion.....If there were drugs in the car,I believe he could be charged with possesion, if he is the only one around or in the car...Imo
Yes, but possession is not the same as...Oh, I give up. You win, Carmen. :P
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Re: Another moron loses his CHL

Post by carmen fovozzo »

sodbuster95 wrote:
carmen fovozzo wrote:I believe he is still in possesion.....If there were drugs in the car,I believe he could be charged with possesion, if he is the only one around or in the car...Imo
Yes, but possession is not the same as...Oh, I give up. You win, Carmen. :P
Finally coming over to the old man side uh ? :wink:
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Re: Another moron loses his CHL

Post by docachna »

carmen fovozzo wrote: I believe he is still in possesion.....If there were drugs in the car,I believe he could be charged with possesion, if he is the only one around or in the car...Imo
"Possession" of drugs does not equate to "carrying" a concealed weapon for notification purposes - IMO.

Note that, as to involvement of a vehicle, 2923.126 puts the burden only on a person who is a "driver or occupant" of a motor vehicle. He is neither. So, you move on to non-involvement of a vehicle. 2923.126 says "...If a licensee is stopped for a law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun at the time the officer approaches,......", etc., etc.

So it boils down to what "is" is - what is "carrying" ? Is he "carrying" the weapon if he's standing outside and it's inside, in the door ? On the seat ? I'd use 2923.12. It says:
A) No person shall knowingly carry or have, concealed on the person’s person or concealed ready at hand, any of the following:
So my argument would be that if I'm standing outside the car, even if it's MY car, I'm not carrying it, since I don't have it concealed on my person or concealed ready at hand (the last one is a close call - but I'll make the argument anyway - helps if the car's locked or I'm 30 ft. away !!) 8) . Like I said before - I realize he can get charged with it. It's a matter of pushing it to conviction.

Better course ? Don't put yourself in the position in the first place. See: "moron".
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Re: Another moron loses his CHL

Post by sodbuster95 »

docachna wrote:
carmen fovozzo wrote: I believe he is still in possesion.....If there were drugs in the car,I believe he could be charged with possesion, if he is the only one around or in the car...Imo
"Possession" of drugs does not equate to "carrying" a concealed weapon for notification purposes - IMO.
I see someone was absent during the Driving had a few Not over the limit thread. :wink:
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Re: Another moron loses his CHL

Post by FN Enter »

I appreciate how everyone has a different perspective and certain elements to comment on that pique their interest. I love this site and all the info/feedback.

I do see and agree with Carmen on the part of...
I believe he is still in possesion.....If there were drugs in the car,I believe he could be charged with possesion, if he is the only one around or in the car...Imo
Whether it's drugs, weapons, etc...if it's your car and contraband is found, well then you take the hit I would think. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it's your car then YOU are responsible for the contents (if your flying solo).
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