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suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby Sevens » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:59 pm

Oh, I have NO DOUBT that there was every good reason to shoot that idiot and I won't pull any punches, I think that our country and the world's population is now better off than it was a day or two ago, let me be clear on that.

However, these officers are going to have a lot of utter crap to deal with, not to mention the whole mental aspect of living the rest of their days with the decision they were forced to make.

In a more perfect world (that admittedly we do not live in), I believe the dog would have ended this entire scenario better for every single participant involved, and that includes the dog who deserved his treat. And for the idiot children watching and filming (poorly) in the car, it would have even been one helluva lot more entertaining to watch.

My thoughts are with the officers that had to live through this ugly ending of a guy who pretty much pulled a textbook "suicide by cop."
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby WestBasin » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:13 am

sodbuster95 wrote:
Sevens wrote:My first question is the most obvious... after the first five shots, was it really necessary to unleash another 5 or 6? One of the articles said that a stray bullet hit a sign for a different business and there was a woman standing under the sign that was hit with debris. (uninjured)


I'm just speculating from my own experience, but I suspect the second volley of shots was purely a result of adrenaline. Once you've made that decision to fire, it's kinda hard to "holster" it. Not saying it's ok, just postulating... I agree with others that a prosecutor might have a field day in the exact scenario where the person doing the shooting is a CHL holder and not a police officer. Of course, he may here, as well.

Sevens wrote:I would also wonder why they had a dog on scene, really. What was the purpose of the dog? To put my question another way... why didn't they let that dog go to work? The dog certainly WANTED to go to work.


I'm also curious about the dog and why the handler didn't let him go to town. I worked with K9 for a while in the Army and most of the handlers would let their furry partners loose in a heartbeat. Big, pointy teeth never failed to subdue a suspect. :shock:


I can't watch the video here at work so I didn't see how it exactly went down but... I was thinking the Officer should be OK as long as he can articulate why he fired the second volley. The bad guy could have been reaching for an unseen weapon. Long as he thought himself or another person was in physical danger right?

If I was the dog's handler I may not have taken him off leash either. There was a really high probability that the dog would have been clobbered even if he got a hold of the bad guy. Just my $0.02 :idea:
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby Mustang380gal » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:17 am

Is it a possibility that the dog was not fully trained, and that's why it wasn't released?

If the dog was going to be released, it ought to have been well before the guy started taking the swing.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby Sevens » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:34 am

I'd put all my money on the dog easily winning that standoff against the idiot.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby scriz » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:45 am

Good riddance.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby rDigital » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:38 am

The nuances, caveats and shenanigans surrounding self-defense are unnerving.

If you unlawfully threaten deadly force against another and have to apparent ability to deliver it, then you receive deadly force. Case closed.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby tomfolery » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:01 am

Based off what I saw in the video it looks completely justified to me...I don't know what happened behind the car, out of camera view, but the cop did, and he acted as he felt he should. I trust his decision more than that of the man swigning at him with the pipe/metal/crow bar.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby dan dan the XD40 man » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:49 am

My wife and I were at dinner with another couple on Friday and this story came up. The wife of the other couple actually said "Why did they need to shoot him if all he had was a crowbar?".

My response was a single question. "Have you ever been hit in the head with a crowbar?".

She seemed to understand why the police shot him after a moments consideration.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby Gaspode » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:13 am

Mustang380gal wrote:Is it a possibility that the dog was not fully trained, and that's why it wasn't released?

If the dog was going to be released, it ought to have been well before the guy started taking the swing.


Nah. Having an untrained dog is a lot like having someone who hasn't finished the academy as your backup. It causes more problems than it can solve. They don't put untrained dogs with handlers in the field.

Also, as to why didn't they release the dog? Well, if you watch it again when he first turns around to what appears to be him going after the cop with the taser, watch that cop... He wasn't ready for it, he was scrambling to get his gun from its holster when the other officer fired. As someone else has already said, it would take the bullet far less time to end the threat than the dog.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby Chuck » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:36 pm

I certain it was a conduit bender he was using for a weapon.

Image


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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby 502ci » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:17 pm

Definitely a conduit bender as it was mentioned. I have 3 of them myself and know with that steel pipe and the aluminum head it makes for a nice swinging weapon and could kill someone easily.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby Chuck » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:33 pm

I'm sorry, I didn't see it mentioned
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby xxxamishxxx » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:05 am

good shoot.. . i made a comment on YouTube. just waiting to get a bunch of nasty comments towards me.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby 502ci » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:31 am

Chuck wrote:I'm sorry, I didn't see it mentioned

Actually I wasn't correcting you I was agreeing with you...I think it was only mentioned among the video responses... :wink:
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby MeefZah » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:55 am

Once you've made the decision to use deadly force it really is a moot point if you fire once or empty the magazine.

Additionally, the second "volley" came less than a half second after the first, it's not like the officer waited a minute and then shot him as he lay on the ground. The mental order to "shoot" had probably already been transmitted from brain to finger.

Ayoob did a study and offered expert testimony on reaction time in shootings often accounting for suspects being shot in the side and the back.
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