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suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

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suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby fumundachz » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:48 am

Seems like a good shoot to me, my heart goes out to the officers involved. The guys making commentary in the video are idiots though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 5ioBvrYIg#

Guy takes a taser to the face and keeps on going.





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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby medmandan » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:07 am

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?secti ... id=8515794

News article on it with a bit fewer of the idiotic "shoot his hand" "let the dog loose" comments..still there, but less than the other articles that I found. All in all, looks to be a good shoot, and pretty much a miracle that the 2nd officer wasn't injured!
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby jetflyr » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:41 am

The YouTubers certainly added plenty of the moronic comments. Fact is you just don't go after a cop with a crow bar. Especially when you're on something.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby propertymanager » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:02 am

I wonder if the second round of 5 shots will be seen as justified? The bad guy was moving away from the officers after being shot the first five times and it could be argued that he was no longer a threat. I suspect that a very different standard will apply here, with an officer involved as compared to a civilian involved. If a civilian defended himself in the People's Republic of Kaliforneea by shooting someone 10 times, including 5 times when the criminal was moving away, I'd bet he would be in PLENTY of trouble.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby sodbuster95 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:55 am

Yup...going after a cop with a big piece of metal probably won't end well for you.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby Sevens » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:36 am

I'm conflicted on this one. We have only the video shot by ignorant children in a car behind rain-spotted windows and the few details in some of the articles.

My first question is the most obvious... after the first five shots, was it really necessary to unleash another 5 or 6? One of the articles said that a stray bullet hit a sign for a different business and there was a woman standing under the sign that was hit with debris. (uninjured)

I would also wonder why they had a dog on scene, really. What was the purpose of the dog? To put my question another way... why didn't they let that dog go to work? The dog certainly WANTED to go to work.

I'm not wiping tears over the loss of some idiot who was probably doped up out of his mind, but you've got a half dozen armed cops and a dog there, all surrounding this guy. Have to wonder if there wasn't another way to end this stand-off.

You have to wonder if the perp was trying to commit suicide on this day. If so, he nailed it but pretty lame to have to put the baggage on someone else to do it for you.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby pleasantguywhopacks » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:49 pm

Good shoot, no question. He was pepper sprayed and then turned raised and cocked back with the crowbar and then hop stepped toward the officer. Don't want to get shot, don't do stupid things. I don't care if he was shot 5 or 55 times.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby propertymanager » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:54 pm

I don't care if he was shot 5 or 55 times either, but if that was you (a civilian) doing the shooting instead of a cop and it was caught on tape just like it was here, I think the prosecutor would have a problem with the last 5 shots (while the criminal was moving away from you - not to mention the 10 shots). Let's be real here - if this was a civilian shooting, the shooter would probably be facing murder charges.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby pleasantguywhopacks » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:01 pm

propertymanager wrote:I don't care if he was shot 5 or 55 times either, but if that was you (a civilian) doing the shooting instead of a cop and it was caught on tape just like it was here, I think the prosecutor would have a problem with the last 5 shots (while the criminal was moving away from you - not to mention the 10 shots). Let's be real here - if this was a civilian shooting, the shooter would probably be facing murder charges.

Unless you are seeing a different angle than me, you can't see the perp behind the car after the first sting. Did he reach for the crowbar again? Lots of interpretation here.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby Chuck » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:47 pm

I think he was dying
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby sodbuster95 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:02 pm

Sevens wrote:My first question is the most obvious... after the first five shots, was it really necessary to unleash another 5 or 6? One of the articles said that a stray bullet hit a sign for a different business and there was a woman standing under the sign that was hit with debris. (uninjured)


I'm just speculating from my own experience, but I suspect the second volley of shots was purely a result of adrenaline. Once you've made that decision to fire, it's kinda hard to "holster" it. Not saying it's ok, just postulating... I agree with others that a prosecutor might have a field day in the exact scenario where the person doing the shooting is a CHL holder and not a police officer. Of course, he may here, as well.

Sevens wrote:I would also wonder why they had a dog on scene, really. What was the purpose of the dog? To put my question another way... why didn't they let that dog go to work? The dog certainly WANTED to go to work.


I'm also curious about the dog and why the handler didn't let him go to town. I worked with K9 for a while in the Army and most of the handlers would let their furry partners loose in a heartbeat. Big, pointy teeth never failed to subdue a suspect. :shock:
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby Sevens » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:35 pm

And if you know anything about dogs, that's like wagging a piece of cheese or a hunk of chicken in front of the dog's face and then telling him he can't have any of it, and never giving him a thing. That dog was born, bred and trained to work and a working dog absolutely lives to do what he is trained and bred to do.

That stumbling idiot mere feet from a healthy, working and motivated police dog-- man, it's just plain unfair to the animal. :|
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby Scruit » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:49 pm

propertymanager wrote:I wonder if the second round of 5 shots will be seen as justified? The bad guy was moving away from the officers after being shot the first five times and it could be argued that he was no longer a threat. I suspect that a very different standard will apply here, with an officer involved as compared to a civilian involved. If a civilian defended himself in the People's Republic of Kaliforneea by shooting someone 10 times, including 5 times when the criminal was moving away, I'd bet he would be in PLENTY of trouble.


That was my thought too. Although if I was on the jury I'd forgive the officer given that he was caught off guard dealing with the failed taser deployment and didn't initially see the attack - he was caught off guard and was a second behind.

The first volley by the dog handler probably saved the taser officer's life. The second volley could be problematic if the prosecutor wants to be an armchair quarterback but in the heat of the moment I feel the officer was doing what he thought he needed to do to save his life. He doesn't get to replay the video a dozen times.

I give a tremendous amount of leeway to a person who is forced into a defensive situation.
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby Sevens » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:50 pm

Scruit wrote:I give a tremendous amount of leeway to a person who is forced into a defensive situation.

Who, the pudgy guy with the axe?!

(kidding! :P )
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Re: suspect shot outside of a carls jr in california *NSFW*

Postby Scruit » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:53 pm

Sevens wrote:And if you know anything about dogs, that's like wagging a piece of cheese or a hunk of chicken in front of the dog's face and then telling him he can't have any of it, and never giving him a thing. That dog was born, bred and trained to work and a working dog absolutely lives to do what he is trained and bred to do.

That stumbling idiot mere feet from a healthy, working and motivated police dog-- man, it's just plain unfair to the animal. :|



I'm wondering if the handler felt that the perp's hold on the weapon would give him a good swing against the dog and was holding the dog until a safer moment to release.

Once the weapon was raised the quickest was to stop the threat was to shoot. The dog would take longer to get there than the bullet
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