Attempted Barber Shop Robbery Turns Deadly in Detroit

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Re: Attempted Barber Shop Robbery Turns Deadly in Detroit

Postby wkdravenna » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:31 pm

I just want to make a comment. This a very narrow barber shop, its not very large, its got about 6 chairs, and they are on a higher level from the door. Its 2 steps up from the floor to the barber chairs. Which makes everyone in there close and also it means that if you're in the barber chair you're sitting at shoulder level to a person who just walked in, this may have something to do with the good shot.

I was there, just an observation I made.
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Re: Attempted Barber Shop Robbery Turns Deadly in Detroit

Postby BobK » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:55 pm

wkdravenna wrote:I was there, just an observation I made.

The article said there were 2 concealed carry licensees. Were you the other one?
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Re: Attempted Barber Shop Robbery Turns Deadly in Detroit

Postby wkdravenna » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:47 am

No, this shop was on my sales route, so I stoped in to take a peak. No one was really around though (on saturday).
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Re: Attempted Barber Shop Robbery Turns Deadly in Detroit

Postby Orochimaru » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:31 am

According to the article:

Police say the deceased has a long rap sheet. He was currently out on parole for an armed robbery conviction.


I would have expected that the background checks would have flagged him as ineligible when he filled out the paperwork to legally purchase his handgun. Oh, wait... I forgot. Only the good guys actually follow the rules. Silly me! :roll:

This case is a poster-child for why all those thousands of "gun laws" on the books are ineffective. The battle cry of "we need to get illegal guns off the streets" is worthless. We need to get bad PEOPLE off the streets. This BG was on parole for the exact offense he was repeating (but never completed)! The "system" didn't fail the BG, the system failed US. It took an armed citizen, legally defending himself and other innocent citizens, to put an end to this BG's "long rap sheet."

It is precisely for situations such as this that the writers of Ohio's constitution carefully spelled out our RIGHT of armed defense.
The second amendment is why we're citizens and not subjects...

‎"Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." St. Augustine A.D. 354-430
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Re: Attempted Barber Shop Robbery Turns Deadly in Detroit

Postby dbw8906 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:47 am

TSiWRX wrote:But at the same time, strong-arm robberies where the first shots fired from the BG(s)'s gun(s), directly into the victims, are not uncommon nowadays, either.

How many of the more recent threads on various gun-Forums debating "Condition 1" carry (I fail to see the need to debate that at all, really :lol: ) cite instances where the bad-guy(s) went in, with gun(s) blazing?

I'm not trying to paint a picture where the stupid and the lazy are turning into mass-killers of ninja-eating skills.

We learn, and so do criminals.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by your post, dbw...I'm not saying that we do not have the right to defend ourselves against lethal-force threats. I'm not saying that the shooter did anything wrong (er...did you look at the mass of the text of my post above? or did you just focus on that last sentence?).

I'm merely pointing out a "what if" evolution in the mindset of the criminals.

Next time, there might not be a warning shot after the "Why you hesitatin'?" question/'challenge. I'd say that the SD-shooter, in this case, might well have realized how lucky he was, and just might, next time, shoot without first waiting to be shot.


The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

Everyone has a "game plan" about the current situation they are in, the CHL'er "game plan" was to get a haircut and the BG's "game plan" was to get stuff they didn't pay for. The BG's "plan" was to strong arm their way in the door, use ego, steel, and muscle to frighten and force others to submit to their will. When the CHL'ers "plan" was then thrown off course when the BG's burst through the door, the BG's plan was shifted when the CHL'er introduced his weapon into the equation.

My whole point was everyone seems to find it funny that the BG's runs away when the CHL'er equals (or surpasses) their use for force. The BG's expects to win the mental game and never really takes into part the physical game, and like wise has little or no response. Most BG's are not grizzled vets form a Russian gulag and can't handle a change of plans, they just get done watching spongebob a couple hours ago.

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Re: Attempted Barber Shop Robbery Turns Deadly in Detroit

Postby TSiWRX » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am

Ah, I see what you mean, now. :)

Here's what I was trying to say, which I thought I explained a little better on the DC.com Forums last night:

What if this BG had decided to make that first shot count? and what if it had been our hero, on the receiving side of that first shot?

I don't usually reply to the "Scenarios" thread in that Forum, but I do like to think about them. Like you quoted (Sun Tzu is one of my favorites, too, as my countryman, I figured, early on in my life, that there was much to be gained by being familiar with his works :) ), it's wise to think about the possibilities. This is the one that got me thinking, in-relation to this barber-shop shooting:

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/car ... tions.html

^ There's a video of a past incident out-linked in that thread - basically, the gunmen came in, made demands, and when that moment of "hesitation" arrived (in this case, it was a clerk being non-compliant, I think in the hopes that it would throw the robbers off-kilter enough so that they'd simply leave), instead of giving the crowd a warning shot, the first shot found its victim.

Now, please understand that I'm not trying to armchair quarterback the Detroit shooting. I hate that. I know from having had at least some Force-on-Force training that all the what-ifs and the couldas and wouldas all go right out the window, in the moment.

Instead, I'm just trying to paint another scenario, and to hopefully learn from both this one, as well as that hypothetical.

I try to do my due-diligence in training and practice, so that I don't lose (much) sleep at night worrying about my level of proficiency (I say "much," because I know I can - and do - always strive to do better).

But the question of "at what point do I press that trigger" is one that keeps me up at night.

I can only hope that if that God-forbid time ever comes, that I do the right thing, and that the outcome is favorable.
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Re: Attempted Barber Shop Robbery Turns Deadly in Detroit

Postby Danvitt » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:33 am

I wonder, did the ccw permit holder get to finish his haircut? I would feel foolish walking around talking to police with half my hair missing..
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Re: Attempted Barber Shop Robbery Turns Deadly in Detroit

Postby djthomas » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:39 pm

Danvitt wrote:I wonder, did the ccw permit holder get to finish his haircut? I would feel foolish walking around talking to police with half my hair missing..

If it's anything like the place I frequent then the answer is most likely yes. :D Several years ago there was a car accident where an old lady missed the turn, jumped the curb and smashed the building. After calling 911 and making sure she was OK it was back to business. Comment from one of the barbers "Ah not three months ago she did the same thing but hit the place across the street." The head barber (who owns the whole property) told the responding officer to stop in once they needed him to sign the paperwork but otherwise he had customers to tend to.

Another time the power went out. The head barber went back to the garage and grabbed his generator and dragged an extension cord with a tap (one for each barber) through the front door and things were buzzing not two minutes later.

Now this situation would be kind of tough with the body in the way, but knowing my barber he'd just relocate everybody to the storage room and finish up using folding chairs!
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Re: Attempted Barber Shop Robbery Turns Deadly in Detroit

Postby wkdravenna » Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:39 pm

djthomas wrote:
Danvitt wrote:I wonder, did the ccw permit holder get to finish his haircut? I would feel foolish walking around talking to police with half my hair missing..

If it's anything like the place I frequent then the answer is most likely yes. :D Several years ago there was a car accident where an old lady missed the turn, jumped the curb and smashed the building. After calling 911 and making sure she was OK it was back to business. Comment from one of the barbers "Ah not three months ago she did the same thing but hit the place across the street." The head barber (who owns the whole property) told the responding officer to stop in once they needed him to sign the paperwork but otherwise he had customers to tend to.

Another time the power went out. The head barber went back to the garage and grabbed his generator and dragged an extension cord with a tap (one for each barber) through the front door and things were buzzing not two minutes later.

Now this situation would be kind of tough with the body in the way, but knowing my barber he'd just relocate everybody to the storage room and finish up using folding chairs!


Do you get ur haircut on oberlin avenue ? Just curious.. I know of a place like this.
My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. - JFK
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Re: Attempted Barber Shop Robbery Turns Deadly in Detroit

Postby TSiWRX » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:37 pm

I'm necroin'g this one because of a recent post on the ASP website:

https://activeselfprotection.com/concea ... d-robbers/

It's a different barber-shop robbery, and this time, there is CCTV footage.
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