Warren County took 50 days

Use this forum to post your experience with encounters with law enforcement, criminals, or other encounters as a result of your firearm or potential to be carrying one.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Post Reply
ITMan
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:56 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Warren County took 50 days

Post by ITMan »

My wife and I just received our licenses after 50 days (and a couple of phone calls). Should we file a complaint with the AG and/or sheriff? What do you all think? Is it worth it? Frankly, at this point, we're just glad to have the licenses.
TunnelRat
Deceased
Deceased
Posts: 9710
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:31 am
Location: Toledo

Re: Warren County took 50 days

Post by TunnelRat »

ITMan wrote:My wife and I just received our licenses after 50 days (and a couple of phone calls). Should we file a complaint with the AG and/or sheriff? What do you all think? Is it worth it? Frankly, at this point, we're just glad to have the licenses.
The sheriff has 45 days in which to issue your license. So he ran over a few days, so what? Have you never paid a bill a coupla days late? :?

You've got your license. Congratulations, and carry your firearm in peace. :)
TunnelRat

"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago

When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
CurtInOhio
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:16 pm
Location: Waynesville, Ohio
Contact:

Post by CurtInOhio »

I'm actually surprised... My wife and I both got ours in under 2 weeks... they seem pretty ccw friendly, but they have one guy that's in charge of the process, and he has a regular workload on top if all that.
Curt M
AmericanGunner
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:40 pm

Re: Warren County took 50 days

Post by AmericanGunner »

tommcnaughton wrote:
ITMan wrote:My wife and I just received our licenses after 50 days (and a couple of phone calls). Should we file a complaint with the AG and/or sheriff? What do you all think? Is it worth it? Frankly, at this point, we're just glad to have the licenses.
The sheriff has 45 days in which to issue your license. So he ran over a few days, so what? Have you never paid a bill a coupla days late? :?

You've got your license. Congratulations, and carry your firearm in peace. :)
Maybe so but the fact is the Sheriff's office violated the law, I recommend calling the AG's office and your state rep to lodge a complaint.
nj3416
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:16 pm
Location: NE Ohio

Post by nj3416 »

I would have to agree that a call to the AG is warranted. What if you failed to pay your state taxes on time one year. Do you think the ODT would say it's okay, you were only five days so you won't be charged any interest.

The 45 day law was put into effect so that the sheriff's offices would have enough time to process the huge amount of applications when CCW was first introduced. Now that the initial rush is over there is no reason it should take any longer than one week.

I applied and received my license from Donna Vickers at the Medina County Sheriff's Office in three days. It would have only been two, but she got mine back so late on the second day that she just waited until the third to let me know it was ready. Now I am clean as a whistle, the federal instacheck system takes more time for the dealer to dial the number than it does for me to get cleared. I have a close friend who is former USMC Force Recon and his took about four days through Medina County. They performed a federal, then it was sent to the FBI, then the CIA, and finally the USMC before being cleared. This was all because of his MOS, but it still only took four days. It is my understanding that the Sheriff's Office itself does little more than passing a few sheets of paper across a desk, scanning your prints, and creating your CCW ID.

50 days simply means they were negligent in their service to you. You do after all pay taxes and the license fee. If you brush it off and don't speak out the Warren County Sheriff's Office will not think twice about treating future applicants the same way. To say that you have it and are happy enough with that is a very selfish stance on an issue that has been so important to us all.
CurtInOhio
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:16 pm
Location: Waynesville, Ohio
Contact:

Post by CurtInOhio »

I'm not saying dont lodge a complaint... I'd talk to the sherriff's office itself, too... I'm just surprised, as they haven't had a history of that as far as I've seen and heard.
Curt M
TunnelRat
Deceased
Deceased
Posts: 9710
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:31 am
Location: Toledo

Post by TunnelRat »

I don't see the value in making a fuss. Sheriffs are busy. Probably what happened here is somebody screwed up and misplaced the paperwork or something else dumb. It's hard to get good help...

It's not as though the Sheriff openly opposed or somehow threatened our right to carry. After all, the licenses were in fact issued, and it's not like it took six months or anything. We probably ought to save our complaints for things that are serious.

Just what do you suppose the AG is going to do anyhow?
TunnelRat

"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago

When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
oldmic
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 1518
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:07 am
Location: Mason

Post by oldmic »

I applied through Warren County and mine took exactly 45 days. However, this was slightly more than a year ago.

I don't think I would have made a formal complaint if it had been 50 days, but that's just me.

Congrats on receiving your license.
Redhorse
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:26 pm
Location: Licking county

Post by Redhorse »

Not filing a complaint would be like an employer not documenting the the first few incidents with a problem employee. Later down the line when something becomes a real problem, there is no "history" to refer back to.

I'm sure complaints are recorded at the AG's office. One or two complaints in a year will likely be excused as the aforementioned misplaced paperwork. If there are 30-40 complaints in a year it will certainly get looked at, 100 complaints in a year.... :shock: !

No need to be hostile, but informing the AG's office will allow them to document the incident, and preform their job the way they have it outlined.

:) Just my 2 cents 8)
Freedom isn't free!
TunnelRat
Deceased
Deceased
Posts: 9710
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:31 am
Location: Toledo

Post by TunnelRat »

nj3416 wrote:The 45 day law was put into effect so that the sheriff's offices would have enough time to process the huge amount of applications when CCW was first introduced.

Not really -- the 45 day law was put into effect so that there would be a definite time period in which to deliver the "Shall Issue" license. This is to avoid a "New York" situation where the Sheriff can just sit on your application forever without having to make a decision one way or another.

Florida also has a 45 day issue period as do many other states. It's not just for the huge amount of initial applications. Florida's law has been in effect for a coupla decades, yet it can still take the whole 45 days and more to get your license.
nj3416 wrote:Now that the initial rush is over there is no reason it should take any longer than one week.
While I tend to agree with you, the law remains set at 45 days. So long as the license issues in that time there is no problem.

In this case the license issued 5 days late. That is a minor hassle. I don't think there is any ground to complain to the AG, nor do I think the AG will do anything about it.

On the other hand, the applicants could have gone in to the Sheriff's office on the 46th day and demanded their licenses. Now that would have been interesting and would have been a better test of the law ...
TunnelRat

"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago

When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
AmericanGunner
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:40 pm

Post by AmericanGunner »

nj3416 wrote:I would have to agree that a call to the AG is warranted. What if you failed to pay your state taxes on time one year. Do you think the ODT would say it's okay, you were only five days so you won't be charged any interest.

The 45 day law was put into effect so that the sheriff's offices would have enough time to process the huge amount of applications when CCW was first introduced. Now that the initial rush is over there is no reason it should take any longer than one week.

I applied and received my license from Donna Vickers at the Medina County Sheriff's Office in three days. It would have only been two, but she got mine back so late on the second day that she just waited until the third to let me know it was ready. Now I am clean as a whistle, the federal instacheck system takes more time for the dealer to dial the number than it does for me to get cleared. I have a close friend who is former USMC Force Recon and his took about four days through Medina County. They performed a federal, then it was sent to the FBI, then the CIA, and finally the USMC before being cleared. This was all because of his MOS, but it still only took four days. It is my understanding that the Sheriff's Office itself does little more than passing a few sheets of paper across a desk, scanning your prints, and creating your CCW ID.

50 days simply means they were negligent in their service to you. You do after all pay taxes and the license fee. If you brush it off and don't speak out the Warren County Sheriff's Office will not think twice about treating future applicants the same way. To say that you have it and are happy enough with that is a very selfish stance on an issue that has been so important to us all.
I had a issue with Butler county dragging their feet with my CCW, I called my state rep and they stated if it went past 45 days they would place a call, on the 44th day the deputy called and said I could pick up my permit the next day.

I asked why it took precisely 45 days and he stated with a smirky attitude I have to answer some phone calls and he hung up on me, I thought about his statement and came to the conclusion he didn't like when I called to inquire about my CCW at the 3 week mark so I called my state rep informed them of my experience.

Two days later I received a call from my reps assistant and he stated they called the deputy to make sure there would not be any other issue in the future :)

In sort do not allow them to get away with this dereliction of duty and obvious violation of the law good help may be hard to find and maybe the sheriff's office needs to retrain or restaff some positions just consider your complaint to your rep as doing your civic duty and reminding Civil Servants of the FACT that they are Civil Servants.

Almost forgot to mention when I took my CCW class a Sheriff's department employee was one of the instructors, I vividly remember him saying if you start calling your permit WILL take 45 days, take that to mean what you will.
mreising
Posts: 6274
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:07 pm
Location: Warren County

Warren County Sheriff is anti

Post by mreising »

This is hearsay but, I was told by a retired deputy that Sheriff Ariss is not in favor of the CHL law. That does not mean that all of the deputies are anti, just the big dog. I would file a complaint to make him follow the law.

It might be worth noting that in SW Ohio, several of the Sheriffs have sent several deputies to MS and LA for relief efforts so they may be short staffed for the next few weeks, but that should not be the reason for the 50 day length of time.
User avatar
jgarvas
OFCC Director
OFCC Director
Posts: 3163
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:35 pm
Location: Northern Summit County
Contact:

Post by jgarvas »

tommcnaughton wrote: On the other hand, the applicants could have gone in to the Sheriff's office on the 46th day and demanded their licenses. Now that would have been interesting and would have been a better test of the law ...
I can assure you that this has happened on MANY occasions and probably continues to happen on a regular basis. One of the flaws in this law is your recourse when this law is broken. There is no criminal penalty for not issuing the license -- at least not one that has teeth.

In cases where licenses were not issued on time, or the application was refused inappropriately, or the license was denied without formal notification or a reason, the course of action was to file a Mandamus action with the courts. The court can order an elected official to do their job.

This was effective, but the trend works like this: You file your mandamums on the 46th or 47th day and you're out a few hundred dollars in filing fees and initial lawyer costs. By the time the court hears your case the Sheriff's Office has issued your license, and now there is nothing to "order" the Sheriff to do.

What this boils down to is there is nobody policing the police, and even if they openly admit they're not going to issue on time, there is no strong legal reprecussion. In my opinion, there are a few ways to make this more efficient.

We could make another law, but how effective is that going to be? Instead, we could make the law require the Sheriff to refund all processing fees and eat the cost of your application's process if the license is not made available by the 46th day.

Is this a big deal? Not really. Many states that have come before us have a ninety day waiting period. A month and a half makes that provision of Ohio's law one of the best turn around times, if its followed.

If the fix-it bill passes in it's current form, Sheriff's will be required to accept applications whenever their doors are open for normal business hours. That alone will be a great thing since they can't tack on 2-10 days AHEAD of receiving your application.

-Jeff
Jeff Garvas, President
Ohioans For Concealed Carry

Contrary to a popular belief when I brag about OFCC accomplishments I'm not looking for your thank you or personal recognition. I'd much prefer you send me an email telling me when you are going to get involved in doing what I've been doing since 1999. We are only as effective as we make ourselves. We need the next generation of OFCC to step to the plate.

Is that you?

To Contact Me: Use This Form and pick my name.
Linda
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:26 pm
Location: Central OH

Post by Linda »

As our law reads, we can go to any county abutting our home county to get our CHL. Therefore, those living on a stateline border county have most likely their own county plus probably 3 more to chose from, and those of us who aren't a border county should have no less than 5 counties including our home county to chose from. If applicants would just do a little investigating prior to applying, certainly they will find an adjoining county that is Pro-CCW that is getting the job done quickly and efficiently! Why in the world would someone give a county their $45 when they're taking 45+ days to process, and their neighboring county is getting it done in 2 days?
"Women must not depend upon the protection of man, but must be taught to protect herself."
Susan B. Anthony~July 1871
Post Reply