Gun Sold Used in a Crime?

Use this forum to post your experience with encounters with law enforcement, criminals, or other encounters as a result of your firearm or potential to be carrying one.

Moderators: Coordinators, Moderators

Re: Gun Sold Used in a Crime?

Postby evan price » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:55 am

wls wrote:OK.....a gun that was traded 25 years ago was able to be traced back to the original purchaser! If we don’t have gun registration I don’t know what is. I remember seeing a show a few years ago where the ATF (or FBI ?) showed the warehouse where all the 4473’s were stored and they were complaining that to trace a gun they had to manually go through the records and wanted to computerize them. I thought the government was supposed to keep 4473’s after a certain period of time. Sure sounds like registration to me!


The process is-
Gun is used in a crime. ATF contacts the manufacturer. The manufacturer gives them the distributor.
The distributor gives then the retailer.
The retailer goes to their bound book to find who they sold the gun to. If the retailer is no longer in business ATF has to go to their records department for the bound books sent by ffls who have closed. This is a manual search. The records are not computerized or indexed. Depending on the ffl volume and record keeping skill and organization this may take weeks.
At this point the trail stops.
Private party sales are not recorded. The original purchaser may be the ultimate owner. Or they may not. The only way to continue is to contact the next owner....if it is known, they haven't moved, etc and ask about the gun.
It may lead back to somebody else. Or another ffl. So we go through bound books again.
It's a detective game where nobody knows where any of the clues are.
"20% accurate as usual, Morty."

Striking down evil with the mighty sword of teamwork and the hammer of not bickering!
Carpe Noctem- we get more done after 2 am than most people do all day.
User avatar
evan price
Forum Janitor
Forum Janitor
 
Posts: 8845
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:23 pm
Location: Westfield, Ohio

Re: Gun Sold Used in a Crime?

Postby willbird » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:38 pm

Evan laid out how it goes from new mfg to initial retail sale.

But guns that have been around awile may have been been across several sets of bound books.

1. Joe sixpack orders new rifle
2. Dealer buys from distro
3. Distro sends to dealer, into dealers bound book
4. Dealer sells to Joe....4473 out of dealers bound book
5. Joe sells to Frank Farkle
6. Frank Farkle sells to Suzie Smith
7. Suzie sells to FFL dealer, into dealers bound book
8. Dealer sells to Karl Jones, out of dealers bound book
9. Karl sells to Jim Smith
10. Jim Smith sells to Olive Oyl
11. Olive Oly sells to FFL dealer, into dealers FFL bound book
12. Dealer sells to Evan, out of dealers bound book.

Now how would BATFE know about 7-8 and 11-12 ?? Well they might tell their examiners doing compliance inspections to be on the lookout for one particular gun if it is a medium level case of interest. If it was a HIGH LEVEL interest case BATFE could ask ALL FFL dealers if they had any info, say something like a Federal Judge being murdered.

BATFE has been digging for years in a Federal Judge murder case trying to trace down Makarov replacement barrels, not even a registered part.
Have a great day today unless you have made other plans :-).
willbird
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
 
Posts: 11318
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:19 am
Location: Exit 13 on the ohio Turnpike :-)

Re: Gun Sold Used in a Crime?

Postby AmberDawn » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:54 pm

How did this work out?
AmberDawn
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:49 pm

Re: Gun Sold Used in a Crime?

Postby mr_kong » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:57 pm

Ongoing.
mr_kong
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Previous

Return to Real Life Encounters

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests