Multiple people dead at a Pittsburgh synagogue

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SMMAssociates
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Re: Multiple people dead at a Pittsburgh synagogue

Post by SMMAssociates »

Being Jewish, this is important to me. OH's law means I can't attend "My" Synagogue without being unarmed or committing a Felony.

We had a meeting about this about a year ago. Our current Rabbi barely participated. He already had another pulpit on the East Coast, and was just wrapping up. I also learned that he was more than a little anti.... The guy who preceded him was quietly pro - he completed the CHL course, but never got around to getting a license. The new guy left the room while I was talking. He said he had another engagement. I consider him an Obama-supporting Democrat.

The rest of the group was attentive - a couple wanted to get in some range time :D - but nothing much came of it. I had to attend the other day - very short "service" regarding my late Sister. I was out of there practically before anybody noticed me. (Felt like wearing a Yellow star at a Nazi Party meeting.) I lucked out in that her funeral service (last February) was at a local Funeral Home (she lived in Columbus). Nobody apparently noticed.

Funny thing about my Synagogue: Many years ago, we managed to get marked for an "invasion" of various militant Arab groups during a normal Friday Night Service. The PTB at the Synagogue called me to make sure I attended. "And bring your gun".... Legal then.... I doubt if anybody even thought of that at that meeting.

Jews can switch Synagogues with almost no effort. Unfortunately, the older folks, in particular, don't do well by that - we have four or five here in Youngstown. All but one are four or so miles from the one within walking distance. (Observant Jews are not supposed to drive - actually, not to hook up a horse to a wagon - on the Sabbath and holidays. So you try to live within walking distance.)

Maybe we can have another meeting? That Obama-supporter is still there.... Oh well, the wife seems to have finally figured it out.

One question - one of the Services at Pittsburgh was a Bris - a circumcision - seems like the baby (usually about 8 days old) should have been there.

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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AlanM
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Re: Multiple people dead at a Pittsburgh synagogue

Post by AlanM »

ArmedAviator wrote: Jesus was the one who taught to turn the other cheek in the New Testament. Jews are more Old Testament - wrathful God and vengeance is to be expected. Eye for an eye.
Good Point.
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Re: Multiple people dead at a Pittsburgh synagogue

Post by M-Quigley »

AlanM wrote:
ArmedAviator wrote: Jesus was the one who taught to turn the other cheek in the New Testament. Jews are more Old Testament - wrathful God and vengeance is to be expected. Eye for an eye.
Good Point.
Vengeance? How about just defending innocent life from harm? We can't even convince some people that's it's okay to do even that. :(
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Re: Multiple people dead at a Pittsburgh synagogue

Post by bignflnut »

ArmedAviator wrote:
AlanM wrote:How many synagogues in Israel are totally unarmed?

Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO)

Ask your Rabbi how many times you have to turn the other cheek, and how many innocent people have to die before he realizes the truth in "God helps those that help themselves" ?

https://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media ... selves.htm
The above is a 59 minute video.
Jesus was the one who taught to turn the other cheek in the New Testament. Jews are more Old Testament - wrathful God and vengeance is to be expected. Eye for an eye.
Yeah, there's a lot of Luke 6 that gets twisted and misapplied in 2018.

Sufficed to say that Jesus wasn't advocating that people forfeit self-defense to advocate pacifism and martyrdom. I'd be all for a robust discussion of this topic, and it would go a long way to expounding the basis of RKBA in American jurisprudence, however, religious discussions are strictly verboten.

Restricting RKBA in any area is a way of weeding out competition in speech, fracturing community institutional structure, and granting funding to the furtherance of less than American ideals.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

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Re: Multiple people dead at a Pittsburgh synagogue

Post by AlanM »

BearingArms.com has an editorial about this.

In Wake Of Synagogue Shooting, How Effective Are Armed Citizens Anyway?
Those of us on the pro-gun side of the aisle tend to argue that armed citizens are the most effective bulwark against this kind of attack. After all, despite what looks like a quick response by the Pittsburgh Police Department, the killer was able to murder 11 people inside the synagogue.

But what if there had been someone inside the building with a gun?

Well, based on a study released last month, armed citizens are pretty damn effective at shutting down bad people trying to do bad things.
AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Re: Multiple people dead at a Pittsburgh synagogue

Post by bignflnut »

If anyone deserves execution, the man who murdered 11 mostly elderly people at a Pittsburgh synagogue on Saturday certainly seems like a strong contender. But regardless of how you feel about the death penalty, the Justice Department's decision to pursue it in this case should trouble you if you worry about an overweening federal government, value the principle underlying the constitutional ban on double jeopardy, or think the government ought to punish people for their actions rather than their beliefs.

SNIP

This overlap allows serial prosecutions for the same crime. In 2003, for example, a federal jury convicted Lemrick Nelson, who had been acquitted in state court of murdering Yankel Rosenbaum during a 1991 riot in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, of violating Rosenbaum's civil rights by stabbing him because he was Jewish.

According to the Supreme Court's "dual sovereignty" doctrine, prosecuting a defendant again after he is acquitted does not count as double jeopardy when one case is state and the other is federal. But such legal sophistry does not change the nature of what is happening: Prosecutors can try again when they don't like the first outcome, or even punish a defendant twice for the same conduct.
It's easy to dehumanize mass murder suspects, but if one is true to big R Rights and due process...this should be on the radar.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Multiple people dead at a Pittsburgh synagogue

Post by catfish86 »

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fighting-fir ... 21404.html There is a strong feeling among many in the Jewish community that Jews have learned their lesson about depending on others to defend them.

As to Jesus, there is a lot of misinterpretation. For instance, a friend of mine pointed out that Peter had struck one of the guards arresting Jesus with a sword and Jesus rebuked him and put the ear back on. I reminded him that Jesus' rebuke amounted to "It is not the time for that, this is supposed to happen" for one thing. I then pointed out that Jesus knew he had the sword and never rebuked him for having it.
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Re: Multiple people dead at a Pittsburgh synagogue

Post by Bruenor »

Amazing this even gets printed in the Cleveland Plain Dealer. decent editorial.
https://www.cleveland.com/morris/index. ... rches.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The president's call for armed protection of America's vulnerable houses of worship deserves to be urgently examined and thoughtfully adopted. Self-defense is not just a right, it's a responsibility. The aisles of the churches are stained with blood. How much more must we stand?
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Re: Multiple people dead at a Pittsburgh synagogue

Post by catfish86 »

By Philip Morris no less. Some people are finally getting it. But to be practical, the armed guard is expensive and not a realistic option for two of the church massacres. Concealed carry by parishioners is more likely the answer for most small churches.
God,
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can
and the Wisdom to know the difference.

Carrying a gun is a right, not a crime.

Gun control is racist.
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Re: Multiple people dead at a Pittsburgh synagogue

Post by bignflnut »

catfish86 wrote: Concealed carry by parishioners is more likely the answer for most small churches.
I know it's considered a radical idea, but the WHOLE POINT of RKBA/2A/State Constitutions is to have local people care for their own security needs, be it a church, schoolhouse, farm, household, business, etc...

Yes, get the civil magistrate out of the way regarding the tools needed to bolster local, decentralized security assemblies.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Multiple people dead at a Pittsburgh synagogue

Post by WhyNot »

''As to Jesus, there is a lot of misinterpretation....''

Yes this is true. In Luke (22?) he states last time I sent you out with nothing, now take money and if you do not have a sword, sell a garment & buy one.
Then they state we have 2 swords, and He states that's enough.
Kinda hard to misinterpret that. And to that I add, a toe into the water isn't a 8) dive into a religious discussion.
Other spiritual and religious leaders have quotes attributed to them such as M. Ghandi and the Dalai Lama. Conversely there are some which state no such course of action. And as we all unfortunately know some are believed to command kill all infidels, if you have to kill yourself as a practice run that's ok too ''this was a drill, this was only a ... :shock: oops'' .

'' Concealed carry by parishioners is more likely the answer for most small churches.''
Again I concur. The 'big miss' IMHO around all this is, the perp needs to think there are many armed persons, perhaps only one of them is a bonafide poe-lice.


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