Multiple people dead at a Pittsburgh synagogue

[M-Quigley]

https://www.wpxi.com/news/top-stories/a ... /860969031" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Details still coming in

PITTSBURGH - Police confirmed there have been multiple casualties at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Squirrel Hill.

UPDATE 12 p.m. - Police sources have confirmed to Channel 11 there were at least 8 people killed in the mass shooting.

PHOTOS: Several people killed in mass shooting in Squirrel Hill

Four police officers were also shot, including two SWAT officers, according to police sources. Two of them are in surgery and are in critical condition.

[M-Quigley]

Update:

https://abc7chicago.com/watch-live-pitt ... y/4565140/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PITTSBURGH, Penn. --
A shooter opened fire during a baby naming ceremony at a Pittsburgh synagogue on Saturday, killing at least 10 people and wounding six others including four police officers who dashed to the scene, authorities said.

President Donald Trump called the shooting "far more devastating than anyone thought," saying "it's a terrible thing what's going on with hate in our country."

Trump also said the outcome might have been different if the synagogue "had some kind of protection" from an armed guard and suggested that might be a good idea for all churches and synagogues.

When I heard this reported on the radio, my first thought was that it was irresponsible for Trump to comment on the synagogue's security or whether it would've helped or not, before all the facts are in. That's what the anti gunners do, react without knowing all the facts. Such as this guy.

Offering a different take, Pennsylvania Democrat Gov. Tom Wolf, a Democrat, called the shooting an "absolute tragedy" in a statement that made reference to calls for tighter gun control laws.

A statement made without any knowledge or even caring whether any gun control measure could've even stopped this guy from getting a gun anyway.

My initial thought was that it was inconceivable in this day and age that a synagogue wouldn't have some kind of armed security nowadays. To not have it is extremely negligent and irresponsible IMO. I thought that unless Trump knew something the public didn't, he shouldn't have answered those reporters questions off the cuff like that. I was however wrong about Trump in this instance.

ABC affiliate WTAE reported that the synagogue usually has security present, but did not on Saturday.

Insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting different results Author unknown

[SMMAssociates]

Just FWIW:

While I don't know about PA law, Law Abiding (and Licensed) Citizens can't usually carry in a Synagogue in Ohio. I tried to explain this to our Synagogue Board about a year ago. The then-Rabbi didn't want any of that. The current Rabbi takes the Obama view. No guns for anybody....

My wife finally figured it out, although she probably doesn't yet understand why I won't join her....

(The Pittsburgh shooter was apparently still "active" when LE arrived - this is somewhat unusual, although I can't speak for Pittsburgh.)

The Libs will likely use this as another way to attack us.

Regards,

[qmti]

Just my opinion, but these mass shooting crazy people are killing the law abiding pro-gun citizens the right to bear arms. With every mass shooting it gives more fuel to the anti-gun crowd to outlaw guns. The Second Amendment will come under attack even more in the future and could be wiped from the books in the next few decades. While us old timers won't see it, the elite billionaire class that is pushing it with their money and with the diminished middle class influence, it could very well happen.

[AlanM]

How many synagogues in Israel are totally unarmed?

Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO)

Ask your Rabbi how many times you have to turn the other cheek, and how many innocent people have to die before he realizes the truth in "God helps those that help themselves" ?

https://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media ... selves.htm
The above is a 59 minute video.

[M-Quigley]

Just FWIW:

While I don't know about PA law, Law Abiding (and Licensed) Citizens can't usually carry in a Synagogue in Ohio. I tried to explain this to our Synagogue Board about a year ago. The then-Rabbi didn't want any of that. The current Rabbi takes the Obama view. No guns for anybody....

My wife finally figured it out, although she probably doesn't yet understand why I won't join her....

(The Pittsburgh shooter was apparently still "active" when LE arrived - this is somewhat unusual, although I can't speak for Pittsburgh.)

The Libs will likely use this as another way to attack us.

Regards,

From what I've read about PA law, churches are not automatically no carry zones, unless there is a school there also or the individual church or synagogue prohibits it possibly. The Synagogue where the shooting occurred does have a religious school in one of it's buildings, but they teach religious teaching on Wednesday's. IDK if that qualifies it as a "school" or not. I didn't find anything on the synagogues website anything specifict to policies r/t carry, although they seem very proud to be "progressive".

This website claims the synagogue is a no guns zone.

https://crimeresearch.org/2018/10/pitts ... free-zone/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rickt]

Looks like the Jewish leaders in Cleveland are more proactive than in other communities.

For the past few years, most of the synagogues in greater Cleveland have had an armed guard outside on the Shabbat and for major functions, Cleveland Anti-Defamation League development director Anita Gray said.

“Cleveland has been way ahead of other communities in terms of active Jewish security,” Gray said

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2018/10/ ... ekend.html

[M-Quigley]

Pistburgh's mayor admits Trumps suggestion on armed protection would save some lives, in an implied way, even though he still opposes it.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pittsbur ... 59200.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“We shouldn’t be trying to find ways to minimize the dangers that occur from irrational behavior.

He then talks about eliminating irrational behavior and of course passing gun control laws so those irrational people won't be able to get guns to shoot people with. You know, because it's perfectly rational to believe you can eliminate irrational behavior, or that someone who wants to murder people are going to care about violating a gun law or can't just get a gun on the street from the same people who sell drugs, etc.

[deanimator]

Looks like the Jewish leaders in Cleveland are more proactive than in other communities.

After 9/11, a friend told me that at his synagogue, you could have held a medium sized gun show just from what the congregations had on their persons.

[deanimator]

Pistburgh's mayor admits Trumps suggestion on armed protection would save some lives, in an implied way, even though he still opposes it.

If he opposes it, then he's in favor of Jews being slaughtered.

Somebody should ask him about BDS...

[Bruenor]

Apparently the Pittsburg Rabbi was in favor of gun control, so by extension it would make sense that he wouldn't engage private or volunteer armed security for the synagogue.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/homepage ... -tackle-it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Three months ago, Tree of Life Rabbi Hazzan Jeffrey Myers took to his congregation's blog and bemoaned the scourge of gun violence and the failure of lawmakers to address the problem.

[Brian D.]

Looks like the Jewish leaders in Cleveland are more proactive than in other communities.

After 9/11, a friend told me that at his synagogue, you could have held a medium sized gun show just from what the congregations had on their persons.

Post 9/11, there were a fair amount of folks whose instincts to live took control from their bleeding heart for a while. But it didn't last, the guns got put away, sold, or turned in at a "buy back". After all, in those days there was no licensed concealed carry in Ohio, open carry in an urban area got you unwanted police attention (if not worse), and people went back to believing that calling 911 was a cure-all.

[Brian D.]

How many synagogues in Israel are totally unarmed?

Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO)

Ask your Rabbi how many times you have to turn the other cheek, and how many innocent people have to die before he realizes the truth in "God helps those that help themselves" ?

https://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media ... selves.htm
The above is a 59 minute video.

On behalf of a Jewish friend who is a member of a particular synagogue, I had a LONG talk (actually several talks) with his rabbi about the concept of becoming one's own "first responder". Keep in mind, I'd met this rabbi on a few previous occasions, and we'd gotten along fine. A mix of my professional and personal opinions, much evidence--published, and anecdotal from my own experiences--with the end result of running him out of rational arguments against me. He would only say "It just doesn't SEEM RIGHT that we'd have to do such things!"

I didn't make a dent. My friend and his wife don't go there any longer.

[ArmedAviator]

How many synagogues in Israel are totally unarmed?

Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO)

Ask your Rabbi how many times you have to turn the other cheek, and how many innocent people have to die before he realizes the truth in "God helps those that help themselves" ?

https://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media ... selves.htm
The above is a 59 minute video.

Jesus was the one who taught to turn the other cheek in the New Testament. Jews are more Old Testament - wrathful God and vengeance is to be expected. Eye for an eye.

[M-Quigley]

How many synagogues in Israel are totally unarmed?

Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO)

Ask your Rabbi how many times you have to turn the other cheek, and how many innocent people have to die before he realizes the truth in "God helps those that help themselves" ?

https://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media ... selves.htm
The above is a 59 minute video.

On behalf of a Jewish friend who is a member of a particular synagogue, I had a LONG talk (actually several talks) with his rabbi about the concept of becoming one's own "first responder". Keep in mind, I'd met this rabbi on a few previous occasions, and we'd gotten along fine. A mix of my professional and personal opinions, much evidence--published, and anecdotal from my own experiences--with the end result of running him out of rational arguments against me. He would only say "It just doesn't SEEM RIGHT that we'd have to do such things!"

I didn't make a dent. My friend and his wife don't go there any longer.

It doesn't seem right to me either, any more than it doesn't seem right that places in Israel should have to have armed security and concealed carriers to protect themselves against the PLO. Unfortunately you can't stop people from hating other people and wanting to murder them. (If you can let us know how)
You can't just stick your head in the sand and pretend life is different. All that does is get more innocent people murdered.

Sometimes you hear ant gunners claim that concealed carry or armed security is not the answer, that it won't work. I remembered something that my father (co pilot) once told me about his WW2 experiences that might be relevant, an analogy I guess. One day he had a non army passenger on his plane, and the passenger was told they might have to abandon the plane in an emergency, and what the emergency procedures were. An emergency landing was not possible due to the terrain below. The guy had never jumped before, and asked if they could ensure that the parachute would open properly and that he would land safely. The pilot replied, "Ensure? no. But you're always free to jump without one and take your chances."