BEAR! wrote:bignflnut wrote:FWIW, (IANAL price of admission) if somebody is angrily F-bombing me and threatening to "mess me up" (Unlawful threat), I would consider that an assault, or certainly the threat of one, to where I would be very cognizant of the hands and body. While a physical altercation has not occurred yet, I would be justified in defending myself, IMHO. Any forward movement by that person would be good enough for me.
So you would shoot someone for F-bombing you and threatening to "mess you up" but you wouldn't shoot them if they shoved you to the ground?
I'm defending that both scenarios are sufficient to a self-defense argument, particularly if you had already attempted to gain distance.
When the words and the threats manifest in physical contact, assuming you didn't escalate/provoke the scenario, I'm all for self-defense. I was attempting to clarify that physical contact is not absolutely necessary and that there exist scenarios where verbal threats can be considered assault under the definition given in this thread, causing a reasonable fear for one's own well being. I think we're all on board that one punch homicides are real, that even a shove can cause heads to bounce off of concrete, tables, pavement, etc (but again, the person being shoved can't have opened the verbal jousting). Being knocked to the ground is, perhaps, a moment too late.
For example, Person I says something and Person W mis-hears it as a "your momma" joke. Person W closes the gap while confronting Person I with clenched fist and raised voice: "what did you say (MF-bomb)?". (Person W at this point cannot claim self defense, produce a weapon, etc) Person I can have a reasonable fear and prepare for a draw, if not produce a weapon (your mileage may vary, again, INAL, just my opinion on self-defense in my own world). With that new input, perhaps the advance ceases, perhaps not. I think then the decision to shoot is still questionable, based on the advance. If Person I retreats and gets shoved, of course producing a weapon is self-defense. If Person I helps close the gap and goes nose-to- nose, who's the aggressor now? Could go either way.
I'll admit to only having a cursory understanding of the Florida Scenario being discussed. I'm not passing judgement on the jury's decision, however...
Thanks for letting me take another swing at that one, hope I said it better.
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