SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

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SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

Post by bignflnut »

Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy will retire from the highest U.S. court, giving President Donald Trump another chance to fundamentally reshape the top of the judiciary.

In a letter to Trump dated Wednesday, Kennedy said he would step down.

"For a member of the legal profession, it is the highest of honors to serve on this Court," he wrote. "Please permit me by this letter to express my profound gratitude for having had the privilege to seek in each case how best to know, interpret and defend the Constitution and the laws that must always conform to its mandates and promises.
Gotta be a bad week @ SCOTUS for the snowflake crowd.

You think there was a push toward incivility before...wait till there's a nominee!
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Re: SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

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  1. invalidate the NFA '34.
  2. Invalidate the GCA '68
  3. Invalidate the Brady Bill.
  4. Invalidate the Hughes Amendment.
A few "first good steps"...
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Re: SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

Post by M-Quigley »

bignflnut wrote: Gotta be a bad week @ SCOTUS for the snowflake crowd.

You think there was a push toward incivility before...wait till there's a nominee!
I had to call a certain anti gun socialist relative about something else anyway, :( so I asked her if she'd heard the news about the justice retiring. She had, and said in her opinion the Democrats should block whoever Trump nominates until after the November elections, when they will take back the house and Senate. (not if but will) Of course this is the same person that said Trump had no chance of winning, so I'm not sure her political prognostications are anyway. She said that after the mid terms, the Democrats can then impeach Trump and Pence, (not sure on what grounds Pence would be impeached :?: ) and then the new speaker of the house would be president. The new president could then appoint the correct justice (AKA another Ginsberg, because she has her picture in her house) and restore some so called balance to the court. By correct, I assume she means an activist justice who believes the BOR is a living document and means whatever the justices want it to mean at that moment.
Hearing all this made me wonder if Ohio started dispensing the medical marijuana and I missed it in the news. :roll:
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Re: SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

Post by djthomas »

I always find impeachment talk hilarious. The dreamy-eyed always forget that its a two step process. Yes, a simple majority of the House is needed to impeach someone. But then it takes two thirds of the Senate, yes TWO THIRDS to convict! That's 67 votes to remove the person from office. It's statistically impossible for the Democrats to have 67 senate seats in 2019; the Republicans only have 9 standing for election this round. Even an electoral shutout would give them 58 seats at best.

In any event, even if the Republicans did hold off until after the elections does anybody seriously think that if they lose the Senate in November they won't confirm the nominee in December on their way out the door? They'd probably also confirm the CFPB nominee then too just to stick it to 'em.
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Re: SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

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You think the Left is bad now, just wait until Ginsburg can’t show up for work anymore and has to be replaced (I’m being polite). The Left will totally implode!
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Re: SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

Post by M-Quigley »

djthomas wrote:I always find impeachment talk hilarious. The dreamy-eyed always forget that its a two step process. Yes, a simple majority of the House is needed to impeach someone. But then it takes two thirds of the Senate, yes TWO THIRDS to convict! That's 67 votes to remove the person from office. It's statistically impossible for the Democrats to have 67 senate seats in 2019; the Republicans only have 9 standing for election this round. Even an electoral shutout would give them 58 seats at best.
I didn't have the exact numbers but I mentioned that general point to her about the Senate. Her response was the evidence from the Mueller investigation will be so compelling that some Republican Senators will be publically shamed into voting to impeach. I asked if Meuller has evidence why doesn't he bring it out now? She thinks Mueller is just waiting for the right time to bring all the evidence publically, and that any day now, the truth will come out. :roll:

When she mentioned Senators (or most politicians of any political affilation) and shame in the same sentence, the thing that happened to pop into my mind at the time was this. :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEqbKTM7n4M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

Post by bignflnut »

SALTY LIB TEARS: Record Salt Harvest After Justice Kennedy Resigns From Supreme Court

Salt miners from The Donald and 4chan are reporting a record harvest after Justice Anthony Kennedy announced he's going to resign from the Supreme Court on Wednesday.
(Warning of the F-carpet bombs all over this article.)

On Kennedy, let us recall that
(A) He is the last of the Reagan appointees on the court
(B) The people not identifying as conservatives think he is/was some bulwark for their worldview.

Everyone expects SCOTUS to move right, therefore Kennedy, the R-appointed, did not reliably deliver as appointed.
The lesson being this, just because an R appoints a justice, doesn't mean the justice (cough, Roberts, cough) is going to do what is expected.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

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"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

Post by M-Quigley »

bignflnut wrote:
SALTY LIB TEARS: Record Salt Harvest After Justice Kennedy Resigns From Supreme Court

Salt miners from The Donald and 4chan are reporting a record harvest after Justice Anthony Kennedy announced he's going to resign from the Supreme Court on Wednesday.
(Warning of the F-carpet bombs all over this article.)

On Kennedy, let us recall that
(A) He is the last of the Reagan appointees on the court
(B) The people not identifying as conservatives think he is/was some bulwark for their worldview.

Everyone expects SCOTUS to move right, therefore Kennedy, the R-appointed, did not reliably deliver as appointed.
The lesson being this, just because an R appoints a justice, doesn't mean the justice (cough, Roberts, cough) is going to do what is expected.
I've always heard Kennedy described as more of a libertarian politically than a conservative, so it's not surprising he would side with the liberals sometimes on certain social issues.

As far as the comments in the link, there was one interesting one. It said if you voted for anyone other than Hillary you own this. I don't think that's quite true in Ohio, because even if you gave all the third party votes to her she still would've lost the state, but oh well. :roll: So all you people who didn't vote for Hillary can take credit for this. :mrgreen:
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Re: SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

Post by steves 50de »

M-Quigley wrote:
djthomas wrote:I always find impeachment talk hilarious. The dreamy-eyed always forget that its a two step process. Yes, a simple majority of the House is needed to impeach someone. But then it takes two thirds of the Senate, yes TWO THIRDS to convict! That's 67 votes to remove the person from office. It's statistically impossible for the Democrats to have 67 senate seats in 2019; the Republicans only have 9 standing for election this round. Even an electoral shutout would give them 58 seats at best.
I didn't have the exact numbers but I mentioned that general point to her about the Senate. Her response was the evidence from the Mueller investigation will be so compelling that some Republican Senators will be publically shamed into voting to impeach. I asked if Meuller has evidence why doesn't he bring it out now? She thinks Mueller is just waiting for the right time to bring all the evidence publically, and that any day now, the truth will come out. :roll:

When she mentioned Senators (or most politicians of any political affilation) and shame in the same sentence, the thing that happened to pop into my mind at the time was this. :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEqbKTM7n4M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You can't blame her she just repeats what she hears on MSNBC and CNN. Just sayin.
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Re: SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

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This will probably get me flamed in some circles but here goes.

I don't see a justice not being reliably conservative or liberal as a weakness but rather as a strength. It means they consider each case on it's merits in accordance with the constitution. As it should be. In fact, I don't agree with the terms conservative and liberal to define judges. these are terms used to describe our two major political parties. Modern SCOTUS justices tend to be either original constructionists or "living document" adherents when interpreting the constitution. The living document crowd tends to try to contort the original meaning of the constitution to fit whatever agenda they happen to support while the original constructionists tend to apply the constitution as is to the facts of the case regardless of what agenda may be advanced or impeded. I can understand how a justice using original construction criteria may reach a Conclusion I do not like.

Not all "liberal" issues are unconstitutional nor are all "conservative" issues constitutional. I can accept that. That's one reason why we have SCOTUS in the first place.

It just so happens that the original meaning of the constitution suits me just fine but I also understand that modern life is vastly different than in the era of the founders. That's what the amendment process is for.
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Re: SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

Post by bignflnut »

WestonDon wrote:This will probably get me flamed in some circles but here goes.

As it should be. In fact, I don't agree with the terms conservative and liberal to define judges. these are terms used to describe our two major political parties. Modern SCOTUS justices tend to be either original constructionists or "living document" adherents when interpreting the constitution. The living document crowd tends to try to contort the original meaning of the constitution to fit whatever agenda they happen to support while the original constructionists tend to apply the constitution as is to the facts of the case regardless of what agenda may be advanced or impeded. I can understand how a justice using original construction criteria may reach a Conclusion I do not like.
I'm with you WD.

The term "liberal" (now a "classical liberal") used to mean one who defends Liberty, someone we would agree with. Of course, these terms have changed meaning over the years, describing the division over the meaning of the Constitution and the role of law in society (shield--Negative Rights vs weapon--Positive Rights).

It's a matter of good faith. Are people attempting to change America and what it means, or are people trying to find legal ways to justify their perverse concept of what America should be in modernity? Everyone wants "justice", but how do we define that, what standard to we uphold as just? What standard do we put our faith in as the standard of justice? This is where secular faiths and religious faiths collide, making them relevant to RKBA...but I digress...

Some offer precedent and "settled law" as a standard to uphold. You can be sure it will be a hot topic in the confirmation process. Korematsu was recently overturned, and everyone agrees to that standard of justice being upheld. No riots in the streets, long overdue, etc...
So a moral plea for the government not to treat Korematsu as law is not enough. Fortunately, there is also a legal argument for why Korematsu should not be treated as such.

The most straightforward way to reject Korematsu is to understand it not as the definitive word on the true meaning of the Constitution, but simply as a moment in historical time in which particular justices applied the law to specific facts. According to this view, a decision can be wrong at the very moment it was decided — and therefore should not be followed subsequently.

Justice Anthony M. Kennedy adopted a version of this theory of precedent in his opinion in the landmark 2003 gay rights case, Lawrence v. Texas. Overturning Bowers v. Hardwick, which had held that a state could criminalize homosexual sex, Justice Kennedy wrote that “Bowers was not correct when it was decided, and it is not correct today.” This formulation suggests that it would have been constitutionally wrong in the deepest sense to rely on the Bowers decision even before the court realized its error and reversed.

It is hard to think of an opinion not yet overturned that has a greater claim to having been wrong when decided than Korematsu.
To be clear, Kennedy argued that precedent is not an appropriate standard to uphold when precedent does not uphold justice. How straightforward is that? These opinions are not set in stone, and even in the absence of new science/tech/understanding, there can be a wholesale rejection of precedent. In fact Lawrence was applauded in its day by those now fearful of a new justice.

Perhaps most infamous of the wretched SCOTUS opinions is Dred Scott. Some argue that the 14th Amendment overturned Dred.

There is no such thing as "settled law". As Reagan said, "Freedom is never more than one generation away from being destroyed..."

In short, there are going to be fireworks because the standard can be changed by the opinions of the un-elected, because much of the legal system relies on these decisions. The operative question is "By What Standard?"

Clearly our political discourse and leaders have divided the populace in numerous ways, so much so that basic civility is now threatened. Are we a nation of laws, or of men? Are we capable of scrubbing out corruption, or do we subsidize it? Assimilation has been denounced as unjustly racist, destroying commonly held values, principles and standards, making SCOTUS a primary battlefield.
Last edited by bignflnut on Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

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Re: SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

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The Democrats stopped being liberals in the early part of this century and became progressives. If you check out the history of the progressive movement, you will find that it encompasses both Republicans and Democrats. In the 30's, the progressives idolized Mussolini and Hitler until things started happening in Europe that made such adoration a political liability. Today, they still hold a lot of the same views, but the stigma is no longer there.
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Re: SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

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schmieg wrote:The Democrats stopped being liberals in the early part of this century and became progressives. If you check out the history of the progressive movement, you will find that it encompasses both Republicans and Democrats. In the 30's, the progressives idolized Mussolini and Hitler until things started happening in Europe that made such adoration a political liability. Today, they still hold a lot of the same views, but the stigma is no longer there.
They do like projecting that stigma on anyone that disagrees with them.
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Re: SCOTUS Kennedy just retired.

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djthomas wrote:I always find impeachment talk hilarious. The dreamy-eyed always forget that its a two step process. Yes, a simple majority of the House is needed to impeach someone. But then it takes two thirds of the Senate, yes TWO THIRDS to convict! That's 67 votes to remove the person from office. It's statistically impossible for the Democrats to have 67 senate seats in 2019; the Republicans only have 9 standing for election this round. Even an electoral shutout would give them 58 seats at best.
I'm constantly struck with the impression that the "intersectional" left watched "The Trial of Billy Jack" and thought it was a documentary...
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