Castle Doctrine in action in Akron

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Castle Doctrine in action in Akron

Postby AlanM » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:32 am

Resident’s son shoots, kills other man trying to break into her home

Another case of, "Here, shoot him with this." 8)

A man visiting his mother shot and killed a 41-year-old man trying to break into the Akron home early Saturday morning, police say.

The resident called police to report a man trying to break into her home in the 600 block of Wyandot Avenue shortly after midnight. The resident’s 36-year-old son struggled to keep the man from coming in the back door. The resident grabbed a handgun and gave it to her son, who shot the intruder, police say.

The two men continued to struggle and the son shoved the man out of the house and fired another shot. Police found the man in the backyard, where he was pronounced dead, police say.

“Send an ambulance,” the upset resident told a dispatcher in a 911 call. “My son had to shoot him!”


That's the Goodyear Heights area of Akron.
AlanM
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Re: Castle Doctrine in action in Akron

Postby Bruenor » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:24 am

Experts question if Castle doctrine applies to this case..

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.s ... ed_in.html
The Castle Doctrine, the state law that lets a person use deadly force against intruders into their home or car, has typically applied to legal residents at a home. But Saturday's fatal shooting of a man suspected of breaking into an Akron home presents an "interesting and trick question" because investigators identified the shooter as a man visiting his mother, experts said.

"The Castle Doctrine generally applies only to someone who resides in a house," said Bill Rich, a recently-retired professor at the University of Akron's School of Law. "But that wouldn't necessarily mean [the son] didn't have the expectation to self-defense."


Self-defense claims could change if the state's House of Representatives passes a so-called "stand your ground" bill that would eliminate the duty to retreat before using deadly force. The vote on the bill could happen this week, House Speaker Ryan Smith said.

Governor John Kasich has indicated he would veto the bill, but House Republicans have indicated they have the 60 votes required to override the veto.

Hoover said her organization is strongly against the bill, which the Buckeye Firearms Association and other gun-rights organizations have supported.

"I don't think shooting someone should be your first choice," Hoover said. "If you have another choice, let's take it."
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Re: Castle Doctrine in action in Akron

Postby JustaShooter » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:59 am

Bruenor wrote:Experts question if Castle doctrine applies to this case..


Seems he has a separate address, so presumably a different *primary* residence. If he was staying with his mother, the Castle should still apply, since Ohio's Castle law allows the defense wherever you are residing, not just your home / primary residence. From ORC 2901.05

(B)

(1) Subject to division (B)(2) of this section, a person is presumed to have acted in self defense or defense of another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if the person against whom the defensive force is used is in the process of unlawfully and without privilege to do so entering, or has unlawfully and without privilege to do so entered, the residence or vehicle occupied by the person using the defensive force.

(D) ...

(3) "Residence" means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as a guest.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2901.05

And 2901.09
(A) As used in this section, "residence" and "vehicle" have the same meanings as in section 2901.05 of the Revised Code.

(B) For purposes of any section of the Revised Code that sets forth a criminal offense, a person who lawfully is in that person's residence has no duty to retreat before using force in self-defense, defense of another, or defense of that person's residence, and a person who lawfully is an occupant of that person's vehicle or who lawfully is an occupant in a vehicle owned by an immediate family member of the person has no duty to retreat before using force in self-defense or defense of another.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2901.09v1

So as I read it, he has the presumption of acting in self defense even if just visiting, and if staying with his mother at the time, no duty to retreat.
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Re: Castle Doctrine in action in Akron

Postby M-Quigley » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:31 am

Bruenor wrote:Experts question if Castle doctrine applies to this case..

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.s ... ed_in.html
The Castle Doctrine, the state law that lets a person use deadly force against intruders into their home or car, has typically applied to legal residents at a home. But Saturday's fatal shooting of a man suspected of breaking into an Akron home presents an "interesting and trick question" because investigators identified the shooter as a man visiting his mother, experts said.

"The Castle Doctrine generally applies only to someone who resides in a house," said Bill Rich, a recently-retired professor at the University of Akron's School of Law. "But that wouldn't necessarily mean [the son] didn't have the expectation to self-defense."


It's a good thing the law professor recently retired if he can't read and understand this from the ORC. :(
I wonder how long the Enquirer had to look around for an opinion they wanted instead of the right one. :roll:

3) "Residence" means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as a guest.
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Re: Castle Doctrine in action in Akron

Postby schmieg » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:15 pm

It's counting the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin. They seem to be saying that Castle Doctrine may not apply (it may not) and that could impact his ability to claim self defense. All it really impacts is the presumption of self defense. They may be suggesting that self defense doesn't apply because he failed to retreat, but he was also protecting himself and his mother and retreat under the circumstances of the guy trying to get through the door seems a bit unsafe and impractical. I think the experts are just creating law school analysis scenarios on this.
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Re: Castle Doctrine in action in Akron

Postby AlanM » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:21 am

Since the legal resident of the house handed him the gun, couldn't the case be made that he was acting as her representative?
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Re: Castle Doctrine in action in Akron

Postby marca » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:53 am

Man shot while breaking into house ... Sorry, I've already heard enough.
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