Possible mass shooter stopped by concealed carrier

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Possible mass shooter stopped by concealed carrier

Postby M-Quigley » Fri May 25, 2018 3:20 am

https://abcnews.go.com/US/civilian-shoo ... d=55424657

Very little information so far, it could have been a domestic situation or it could've been random, no motive so far. The attacker was in allegedly in the process of leaving and the concealed carrier was allegedly entering when the concealed carrier shot the attacker, but the article doesn't mention things like how many were in the bar at the time, or how many were left after the shooting started, as other patrons ran out of the bar or hid when the shooting started. Some of the injuries of the people who weren't shot were due to escaping. It's unknown whether the attacker was trying to flee or just looking for more victims. Either way it's another success story for the idea of citizen concealed carry. :)
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Re: Possible mass shooter stopped by concealed carrier

Postby Gramps » Fri May 25, 2018 4:40 am

M-Quigley wrote:https://abcnews.go.com/US/civilian-shoots-kills-suspect-opened-fire-restaurant/story?id=55424657

Very little information so far, it could have been a domestic situation or it could've been random, no motive so far. The attacker was in allegedly in the process of leaving and the concealed carrier was allegedly entering when the concealed carrier shot the attacker, but the article doesn't mention things like how many were in the bar at the time, or how many were left after the shooting started, as other patrons ran out of the bar or hid when the shooting started. Some of the injuries of the people who weren't shot were due to escaping. It's unknown whether the attacker was trying to flee or just looking for more victims. Either way it's another success story for the idea of citizen concealed carry. :)


I didn't see concealed carrier in your ABC link or this link to Fox news http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/24/ma ... e-say.html
Reading at 5:30 AM is not one of my strong points though!
I hope the armed citizen who stopped the bad guy was legal!
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Re: Possible mass shooter stopped by concealed carrier

Postby djthomas » Fri May 25, 2018 5:58 am

Gramps wrote:I hope the armed citizen who stopped the bad guy was legal!

The fact that the police refer to him as an "armed citizen" is very telling in and of itself.
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Re: Possible mass shooter stopped by concealed carrier

Postby M-Quigley » Fri May 25, 2018 9:53 am

Gramps wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:https://abcnews.go.com/US/civilian-shoots-kills-suspect-opened-fire-restaurant/story?id=55424657

Very little information so far, it could have been a domestic situation or it could've been random, no motive so far. The attacker was in allegedly in the process of leaving and the concealed carrier was allegedly entering when the concealed carrier shot the attacker, but the article doesn't mention things like how many were in the bar at the time, or how many were left after the shooting started, as other patrons ran out of the bar or hid when the shooting started. Some of the injuries of the people who weren't shot were due to escaping. It's unknown whether the attacker was trying to flee or just looking for more victims. Either way it's another success story for the idea of citizen concealed carry. :)


I didn't see concealed carrier in your ABC link or this link to Fox news http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/05/24/ma ... e-say.html
Reading at 5:30 AM is not one of my strong points though!
I hope the armed citizen who stopped the bad guy was legal!


I was using that term generically, I should have said armed citizen. I haven't seen any information at that time about whether the armed citizen had a CHL or not, or whether it's required in that state.

Here is a another link, this one refers to the armed citizen as a concealed carrier. The problem with this link is the story is vastly different than other reports I've heard, in regards to where certain people were when the gunman started shooting.

Prior to me posting this reply, I heard an interesting viewpoint from someone. This individual stated that the armed citizen shouldn't have shot the guy, because

A: the guy was trying to escape (I expected someone to say this :roll: )
B: Since the "vigilante" :roll: shot the guy it's harder to figure out what the motive was. :?:
I asked why that matters in the middle of a group of people getting shot, and the reply was he could've just had a beef against a certain person or group of people, and therefore you shouldn't get involved other than calling 911. This person based their opinion on a story that basically said the shooter went in, shot only at a couple of people, and then tried to leave.


http://fox2now.com/2018/05/25/man-opens ... im-police/

Witnesses report that the shooter was near the restaurant and fired at people as they walked toward the doors.

“She said they were getting ready to walk in the front door and evidently, the shooter was in the treeline and they were both shot by the front door,” recalled Dennis Will.


Family members say the suspect shot Natalie Will, and her daughter, 12-year-old Syniah Giles, as they were walking in front of the restaurant.


Authorities have not released the suspect’s identity at this point, but witnesses say stood out from the crowd.

Witnesses told News 4 the gunman was wearing eye and ear protection, leading many to believe that a lot of thought went into the attack.

“He was just a 20-something-year-old kid, I don’t know,” Benton said, “Didn’t look very old. He was wearing ear protection and eye protection that you would have at a shooting range, so obviously he intended to come here and shoot tonight.”

Benton said the shooter appeared to be acting strangely when he spotted him.

“He was just kind of wandering back and forth,” Benton said. “He was, initially when I first picked him up, he was walking as if nothing had happened.”

The Good Samaritans

There were several good Samaritans who took action to either stop the gunman or help those who were injured.

After the victims were shot, Benton said that he saw a citizen with a gun looking for the suspect.

“I spotted the [shooter] walking north up the sidewalk, and pointed him out to the guy who had the weapon, and then there was another guy who had one,” Benton remembered. “They were really screaming. They were like, ‘Stop! stop! stop! Please! Put the gun down! Please put the gun down!’ And I was pointing at him, I was like ‘Down! Put it down! Put it down!’ and they wound up exchanging fire.”

“We heard someone say, this man, yelling, ‘Put down the gun,’ before the second shots,” Morgan, another witness, said.

Authorities say a citizen with a concealed carry permit shot and killed the suspect at the scene.

Thankfully the only person that is deceased is the person who was trying to harm others, and it looks like others are going to survive at this point. That`s the best thing that we can hope for at this point,” said Capt. Bo Mathews, with the Oklahoma City Police Department.
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Re: Possible mass shooter stopped by concealed carrier

Postby evan price » Fri May 25, 2018 6:32 pm

On another forum there are a few people trying to claim this was pre mediated murder. Their 'facts' are:
A. CCW made the active choice to carry a gun and look for trouble
2. The CCW wasnt the one who the guy was trying to shoot
III. The CCW deliberately shot this guy who wasnt doing anything by provoking him by pointing a gun at him.

Ergo they claim it was murder.

Since the forum is running about 99.98% against this chain of reasoning it's laughable.
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Re: Possible mass shooter stopped by concealed carrier

Postby djthomas » Fri May 25, 2018 7:57 pm

evan price wrote:On another forum there are a few people trying to claim this was pre mediated murder.

Tennessee v. Garner is rather instructive on the fleeing felon rule. In short it states "This case [determines] the constitutionality of the use of deadly force to prevent the escape of an apparently unarmed suspected felon. We conclude that such force may not be used unless it is necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others"

In this incident the suspected felon was both armed and had already shown that they posed a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to others. His continued possession of the weapon as he began to flee (if indeed that's what he was doing) shows that the threat was in no way diminished.

While it's true the armed citizen wasn't a police officer, as I understand it in Oklahoma the citizen's arrest power is equal to that of a law enforcement officer so long as there's probable cause, etc. Reasonable force may be used. Heck, it seems that in OK a private person can even break down doors and windows to effect felony arrests. This is broader than Ohio where private citizens may only arrest for felonies and their ability to use force is more implicit than explicit - obviously shooting up a restaurant qualifies just about anywhere though.

Thus not only can the armed citizen avail themselves of the self defense/defense of another argument, they can claim that they were effecting a lawful arrest and their conduct was constitutionally permissible.
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Re: Possible mass shooter stopped by concealed carrier

Postby M-Quigley » Fri May 25, 2018 8:21 pm

On the CBS evening news they claimed both men who confronted the shooter had CCW permits, both men went to their cars after the shooting started to retrieve their guns, (perhaps something to do with that state law since it was a restaurant and a bar ?) one of the citizen defenders was also an off duty security guard, and the shooter was also employed as a security guard. (but not at that restaurant) The shooter posted something on youtube recently where he claimed his refrigerator was making funny noises and trying to assault him. :roll:

http://okcfox.com/news/fox-25-investiga ... nic-attack

“I am under hardcore demonic attack you know; I really need some real people in my life so get in touch with me ASAP” Alex Tilghman said into the camera for his YouTube page. The post happened weeks before police say he went into Louie’s Bar and Grill on Lake Hefner and opened fire.

Tilghman, 28, lived in Oklahoma City and his social media posts are filled with cryptic references to demonic attacks. In one video posted from the Oklahoma City Zoo, Tilghman complains of a demon-possessed squirrel which followed him around the park.

Other videos posted three weeks before the shooting, Tilghman appears to be recording video near Lake Hefner of the cars passing by, which he claimed Satan was making sound louder.


Tilghman’s major focus was on demonic activity and his belief that most, if not all, of the people around him had been replaced by clones possessed by demons and that he was one of the few “real” people in the world.

Tilghman advertised his social media page using bumper stickers and posters he left around town. One poster that pointed to his YouTube warned of “Demons in Cloned Transsexual Bodies.”

“I even have my refrigerator attacking me,” a monotone Tilghman said in the video. “It turns on when I am thinking something.”

His monologues mix between this demonic possession belief and one where he feels he is living in a “matrix.”


Police say Tilghman walked to the door of the restaurant Thursday evening and fired from the outside. At least four people were injured by either bullets or the chaos that followed as patrons tried to flee the crowded building.

Two citizens, identified by police as Bryan Whittle and Juan Carlos Nazario, confronted Tilghman in the parking lot. Police say the men shot and killed Tilghman before he was able to continue with his plan.


Here is the most obvious quote :roll:

In a previous YouTube page, another user who claimed to be Tilghman’s brother said he was mentally disturbed.
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Re: Possible mass shooter stopped by concealed carrier

Postby JustaShooter » Fri May 25, 2018 9:43 pm

M-Quigley wrote:On the CBS evening news they claimed both men who confronted the shooter had CCW permits, both men went to their cars after the shooting started to retrieve their guns, (perhaps something to do with that state law since it was a restaurant and a bar ?)

I saw an article a few minutes ago that stated the restaurant was posted.
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Re: Possible mass shooter stopped by concealed carrier

Postby M-Quigley » Sat May 26, 2018 6:14 pm

JustaShooter wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:On the CBS evening news they claimed both men who confronted the shooter had CCW permits, both men went to their cars after the shooting started to retrieve their guns, (perhaps something to do with that state law since it was a restaurant and a bar ?)

I saw an article a few minutes ago that stated the restaurant was posted.


I saw something also, that showed a picture of a sign with a red circle and slash over a handgun, but allegedly there is small print that says "No open carry" :?:

https://www.themaven.net/bluelivesmatte ... Xus5RoKJw/

Blue Lives Matter has confirmed that Louie's has a sign on their door prohibiting firearms (with small text prohibiting open carry.) We have not been able to definitely confirm that this is the reason the heroes had to run to to their vehicles to get their weapons, or if they left their weapons behind due to a personal choice.

Oklahoma City Police Captain Bo Mathews said that he believed the shooting would have continued if Nazario and Wittle hadn’t intervened.

“It could have really been bad,” Capt. Mathews told USA Today.
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Re: Possible mass shooter stopped by concealed carrier

Postby catfish86 » Sun May 27, 2018 9:13 am

So it is entirely possible that there would have been less bloodshed IF they had been allowed to carry. There was a gun-grabbing law enforcement type who was saying CCW was not involved here since they had to go out to their cars to get their guns...talk about circular reasoning to avoid the obvious conclusion. Reminds me of a Clintonista congressman on Tucker Carlson trying to claim there was evidence of Russian Collusion when it was pointed out that none of his "evidence" proved anything..."don't confuse the evidence with the conclusion".
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