And it happens again, another school shooting

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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby AlanM » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:32 pm

I saw a post on another site that caused me to verify their premise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States

That's an up to date list of every school shooting with deaths and injuries listed from the 17th century through this week.


There's the Texas Tower shooting of 1966 at the U of T. It was the deadliest shooting on a U.S. college campus until the Virginia Tech shooting in 2007.
The May 4th, 1970 Kent State shooting is listed, of course.

January 17, 1989 Stockton, California 6 dead 32 injured
Stockton schoolyard shooting: 24-year-old Patrick Edward Purdy fatally shot five children and wounded 32 others at the Cleveland Elementary School, before taking his own life. The victims were children of refugees from Southeast Asia. Purdy had a history of violence, alcoholism and drug addiction, and criminality.


I believe, I could be wrong, that this incident caused the US Congress to pass the ban of firearms withing 1000ft of K-12 schools and school activities in 1990.
The preponderance of all school multiple death school shootings have occurred after this date.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States#1980s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings_in_the_United_States#1990s

Also check out the list for 2018. Does that look like 18 incidents??? No, it states 7 listed.
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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby M-Quigley » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:12 am

According to one news source I read, one of the staff, a coach by the name of Fein, was also a part time school security officer. There was initially some question about whether the noise was gunfire, and he was able to radio back that it was in fact gunfire, before he put himself inbetween the shooter and the students. He wasn't the only staff member on scene either. A shooting that lasted 3 minutes and took many lives could've potentially been over in seconds, and with a much lower loss of life or number of wounded. The article didn't say whether he was unarmed by choice or school policy. If it was by school policy the people in charge should consider that. :(
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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby deanimator » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:52 am

M-Quigley wrote:According to one news source I read, one of the staff, a coach by the name of Fein, was also a part time school security officer. There was initially some question about whether the noise was gunfire, and he was able to radio back that it was in fact gunfire, before he put himself inbetween the shooter and the students. He wasn't the only staff member on scene either. A shooting that lasted 3 minutes and took many lives could've potentially been over in seconds, and with a much lower loss of life or number of wounded. The article didn't say whether he was unarmed by choice or school policy. If it was by school policy the people in charge should consider that. :(

Yeah, but shooting back would be "escalating the violence" and "lowering themselves to the killer's level"... or so they tell me.

But they don't want to turn the schools into "prisons" or "armed camps".

Better to violate the rights of those completely uninvolved.

Sometimes the "moral high ground" is six feet deep...
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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby Whirlwind06 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:44 am

How many more of these tragedies can this country withstand? With the GOPs and gun owners response being "thoughts and prayers"?
Or it's to soon to be talking about this, I understand that emotion is very high right now.

But I think the NRA and the GOP needs to get in front of this. Or at least not get dragged down and trampled.
We (gun owners) are on the losing side of this debate. Our best chance to get a tolerable bill passed is now.
A year from now the GOP might not have the majority, and I can pretty much guarantee that the next Democratic majority will not craft a bill that any of us will like.

Raise the age for all gun purchases to 21, make it a little bit hard to get them. Or 15 round mag caps is better then an out right ban.
Part of the bill is block grants for hardening schools and hiring real armed security. I'm just throwing out ideas, but I would rather we part of the discussion then just dealing with the fallout.
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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby High Power » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:02 am

My answers are in RED below:

Whirlwind06 wrote:How many more of these tragedies can this country withstand? With the GOPs and gun owners response being "thoughts and prayers"?
Or it's to soon to be talking about this, I understand that emotion is very high right now.

What we need to do is start hitting back at the liberals everytime they start dancing in the blood of the victims by pointing out that the reason they say the "good guy with a gun" doesn't work is because they don't let the "good guy with a gun" in the school in the first place. We need to point out that court houses get great security than schools. We need to point out that if the plethora of guns were a problem then we'd see mass killings at shooting ranges.

But I think the NRA and the GOP needs to get in front of this. Or at least not get dragged down and trampled.
We (gun owners) are on the losing side of this debate. Our best chance to get a tolerable bill passed is now.
A year from now the GOP might not have the majority, and I can pretty much guarantee that the next Democratic majority will not craft a bill that any of us will like.

Our best chance is to go on the offensive and keep pointing out that anti-gun laws are the problem. Also the Social Workers, School Board and the FBI let this shooter slip through the cracks. Your statements sound like a cop-out and defeatism.

Raise the age for all gun purchases to 21, make it a little bit hard to get them. Or 15 round mag caps is better then an out right ban.
Part of the bill is block grants for hardening schools and hiring real armed security. I'm just throwing out ideas, but I would rather we part of the discussion then just dealing with the fallout.

Why don't you go the extra mile and prohibit the 17 & 18 year-old people in the military from carrying & using M-4s, M-16s, M-9s, SAWS, TOW missiles and hand grenades?
Magazine capacity limitations again? You are beginning to sound like a troll. Look where that kind of talk got us in 1994.

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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby bignflnut » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:03 am

Tucker Carlson (4:34) had a solid monologue on the political battlefront and how today's conversation is missing the mark.
“Let’s stop lying about this. The calls we are hearing today for gun control have nothing to do with protecting Americans from violence. What you’re witnessing is a kind of class war. The left hates rural America, red America, gun-owning America, the America that elected Donald Trump. They hate them. Progressives are still in charge of most of the major institutions in this country, and they despise the autonomy of an armed population. They want collective punishment for the sins of a few. They seek to obliterate a core constitutional right rather than trying to mitigate its downsides. They call it gun control, but it’s not. It’s people control. For the left, voters who can’t be controlled, can’t be trusted.”


Whirlwind06, there is no compromise with these people. They seek your destruction, politically and physically. Our side doesn't advocate for freedom because they're hypocrites (else they'd champion Cody Wilson's work). We're not discussing Rights, where they come from or how they make America a positive place to live. Tribalism is setting in as we've been divided into groups of gun owners, race groups, pro family vs pro choice, etc...and eventually, when tribes lose power, they become violent.

Rights are for all people. We should have leadership that discusses the under-girding philosophies of America to drown out the cry-babies in this moment, but we don't. Overarching philosophy should unite the nation and demonstrate the folly of the Marxists.

OBTW, does anyone remember the hot water the FBI and the Obama administration was in prior to this event? Nah.

How refreshing would it be to see a leader come forward and explain how Parkland is a failure of self-government? A failure of family government. A failure of civil government (FBI not picking up on the national snitching program known as See Something, Say Something). A failure of community, etc. How we all need to rededicate to loving our neighbors and forgiving each other's trespasses, instead of holding grudges-- employing the golden rule and grounding our lives in a deep faith. How in our PC postmodern, Creator hating culture we can expect more of these events unless we repent of our failures and seek grace and wisdom.

The State cannot keep us safe, and is increasingly less interested in the task.
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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby carmen fovozzo » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:30 am

High Power wrote:My answers are in RED below:

Whirlwind06 wrote:How many more of these tragedies can this country withstand? With the GOPs and gun owners response being "thoughts and prayers"?
Or it's to soon to be talking about this, I understand that emotion is very high right now.

What we need to do is start hitting back at the liberals everytime they start dancing in the blood of the victims by pointing out that the reason they say the "good guy with a gun" doesn't work is because they don't let the "good guy with a gun" in the school in the first place. We need to point out that court houses get great security than schools. We need to point out that if the plethora of guns were a problem then we'd see mass killings at shooting ranges.

But I think the NRA and the GOP needs to get in front of this. Or at least not get dragged down and trampled.
We (gun owners) are on the losing side of this debate. Our best chance to get a tolerable bill passed is now.
A year from now the GOP might not have the majority, and I can pretty much guarantee that the next Democratic majority will not craft a bill that any of us will like.

Our best chance is to go on the offensive and keep pointing out that anti-gun laws are the problem. Also the Social Workers, School Board and the FBI let this shooter slip through the cracks. Your statements sound like a cop-out and defeatism.

Raise the age for all gun purchases to 21, make it a little bit hard to get them. Or 15 round mag caps is better then an out right ban.
Part of the bill is block grants for hardening schools and hiring real armed security. I'm just throwing out ideas, but I would rather we part of the discussion then just dealing with the fallout.

Why don't you go the extra mile and prohibit the 17 & 18 year-old people in the military from carrying & using M-4s, M-16s, M-9s, SAWS, TOW missiles and hand grenades?
Magazine capacity limitations again? You are beginning to sound like a troll. Look where that kind of talk got us in 1994.


Thanks for that post.
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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby WY_Not » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:00 pm

Samuel Adams wrote:If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.


Compromise is NOT the answer. How do you compromise with someone who wants to kill you? Agree to allow them to beat you only half to death?

Whirlwind06 wrote:Raise the age for all gun purchases to 21, make it a little bit hard to get them. Or 15 round mag caps is better then an out right ban.
Part of the bill is block grants for hardening schools and hiring real armed security. I'm just throwing out ideas, but I would rather we part of the discussion then just dealing with the fallout.
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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby deanimator » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:03 pm

Whirlwind06 wrote:But I think the NRA and the GOP needs to get in front of this.

Would you have similarly counseled German Jews to "get in front of" the Nuremberg Laws, or for my ancestors to have "gotten in front of" Jim Crow?

Whirlwind06 wrote:We (gun owners) are on the losing side of this debate.

Some of "us" certainly hope so.

But then are they REALLY "us"?

Whirlwind06 wrote:Our best chance to get a tolerable bill passed is now.

  1. "Tolerable" to WHOM?
  2. What's to stop totalitarians from passing an INtolerable bill the next week?

Whirlwind06 wrote:A year from now the GOP might not have the majority, and I can pretty much guarantee that the next Democratic majority will not craft a bill that any of us will like.

What's to stop them from doing so anyway?

Whirlwind06 wrote:Or 15 round mag caps is better then an out right ban.

NO, I REFUSE.

Once started there is no end to invidiously racist gun controls.

They're not a slippery slope. They're a dead drop, with no end until they hit bottom.

The AHSA zombie should stop trying to claw its way out of its grave. Gun owners aren't nearly as stupid as the anti-gun cult thinks we are.
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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby deanimator » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:07 pm

bignflnut wrote:Whirlwind06, there is no compromise with these people.

We can no more compromise with the anti-gun cult than Yazidi women can "compromise" with ISIS.
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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby deanimator » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:04 pm

Here's "compromise" with the anti-gun cult in a nutshell:

"I support the 13th Amendment, but there's room for 'common-sense slavery'."
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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby Bruenor » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:12 pm

If I let you take 5% of my rights as a 'compromise' because of this tragedy, and 5% of my rights at the next tragedy, how long before I have NO rights left ?
Compromise with the other side just means eventually we lose everything.

How about this for compromise.. Eliminate 10 useless firearms laws that are currently on the books, then next year we eliminate 10 more, eventually our rights will be restored. there's only what like some 10,000 firearms laws (fed, state, local) currently on the books ?
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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby deanimator » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:17 pm

Bruenor wrote:If I let you take 5% of my rights as a 'compromise' because of this tragedy, and 5% of my rights at the next tragedy, how long before I have NO rights left ?
Compromise with the other side just means eventually we lose everything.

How about this for compromise.. Eliminate 10 useless firearms laws that are currently on the books, then next year we eliminate 10 more, eventually our rights will be restored. there's only what like some 10,000 firearms laws (fed, state, local) currently on the books ?

Here's my "compromise":
  • Repeal the National Firearms Act of 1934.
  • Repeal the Gun Control Act of 1968.
  • Repeal the new machine gun ban.
  • Repeal the Brady Bill.
  • Abolish the BATF[E] and appoint a special prosecutor to look at it's activities going back to the Kenyon Ballew shooting.

That's MY "compromise". After all, there were no calls for summary executions...
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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby bignflnut » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:24 pm

GOA is "out in front" of this:

“Some lawmakers may seek to implement more restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms, such a the misnamed ‘NICS Fix’ legislation. However, no form of gun control will help prevent these tragedies.

“Instead, GOA calls on Congress to immediately pass the 'Safe Students Act,' legislation introduced by Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY), to repeal the Gun-Free School Zones Act, which enable evil doers by leaving teachers, school administrators, and parents unable to protect students. In fact, 81 percent of police officers support arming teachers to stop school shootings.

“Lastly, GOA calls on state legislatures, including Florida lawmakers, to pass Constitutional Carry legislation to remove the unnecessary legal barriers to carry a firearm.”


Liberals, who can't identify a male or a female, are speaking with volume, but little to no authority, on this matter, decrying the very setup, born of compromise, that they insisted upon.
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Re: And it happens again, another school shooting

Postby Javelin Man » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:07 pm

My biggest problem is that if a compromise is accepted and implemented, we know that it won't work, no matter how intrusive the compromise is.

So next, they go to the next level of "compromise" to make it work and keep people safe. It won't work either, and so on and so on as it escalates.

The 2nd Amendment becomes part of the history books before it's rewritten out of the history books and forgotten among the subjects.
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