Surveillance video released in Kansas Costco incident

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Surveillance video released in Kansas Costco incident

Postby Bruenor » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:55 am

Don't recall seeing this story before, Happened around Nov 26th. Gunman was engaged by an armed off duty officer. Doesn't look like the gunman actually fired at anyone, so was this a suicide by cop incident ?

Love this quote from the officer though..
Howell said that he’s always armed.

“You never know what situation you are going to find yourself in whether it is a restaurant or a shopping mall, or just driving down the road,” he said. “I think it would be ludicrous not to be prepared.”


http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/cr ... 00173.html

Lenexa police say Ronald O. Hunt, 58, of Edwardsville, Kan., died after he was shot by an off-duty police officer who confronted Hunt while customers and employees fled to the back of the store.

Police said Hunt was inside the business yelling and threatening customers (with a revolver) when officers were summoned.


Video here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ostco.html
https://www.policeone.com/officer-shoot ... co-gunman/


Some 911 partial Call transcripts
http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/cr ... 85293.html
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Re: Surveillance video released in Kansas Costco incident

Postby Javelin Man » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:11 am

If said gunman hadn't fired a shot, how many of us would have taken out the perp? It's a good shot for a police officer or off-duty same, but we'd be looked at under a different microscope.
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Re: Surveillance video released in Kansas Costco incident

Postby JustaShooter » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:45 am

Javelin Man wrote:If said gunman hadn't fired a shot, how many of us would have taken out the perp? It's a good shot for a police officer or off-duty same, but we'd be looked at under a different microscope.


Without watching the video, I can't say if I would have in this instance or not. But, if a gunman is pointing a gun at someone they present an imminent deadly threat, shots fired or not. He points it at me or my family, I'm going to respond with deadly force, given the opportunity. If he is pointing it at someone else, I'm going to need to know enough about the situation to decide.
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Re: Surveillance video released in Kansas Costco incident

Postby M-Quigley » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:53 pm

Bruenor wrote:Don't recall seeing this story before, Happened around Nov 26th. Gunman was engaged by an armed off duty officer. Doesn't look like the gunman actually fired at anyone, so was this a suicide by cop incident ?


Even if it was, so what? If the defender waits until the bullet comes out of the barrel to start shooting, the defender risks getting hit. In Hollywood tv shows and movies, the bad guys shoot first and miss, and the good guys/gals alway hit, but that's not real life. I haven't seen the video yet, but IMO if the gunman did something where the defender believed the attacker was in the process of pointing a firearm at the defender, it would be reasonable for the defender to start shooting.
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Re: Surveillance video released in Kansas Costco incident

Postby M-Quigley » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:00 pm

Javelin Man wrote:If said gunman hadn't fired a shot, how many of us would have taken out the perp? It's a good shot for a police officer or off-duty same, but we'd be looked at under a different microscope.


Of course we probably would. If I'd have been there IDK if I would've engaged in the situation in the first place, (depends on what was going on at the time, like risk to innocent victims, etc)
I certainly don't have a duty to act like the officer did. If however I was involved in the situation, willingly or not, I would not have waited until he was actually shooting rounds in my direction if I could avoid it. I don't want to go to jail or court but I don't want to go to the hospital or morgue either just to avoid jail or court. I'm speaking in just general terms, not specific to this situation because I haven't seen the video yet.
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Re: Surveillance video released in Kansas Costco incident

Postby M-Quigley » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:05 pm

JustaShooter wrote:
Javelin Man wrote:If said gunman hadn't fired a shot, how many of us would have taken out the perp? It's a good shot for a police officer or off-duty same, but we'd be looked at under a different microscope.


Without watching the video, I can't say if I would have in this instance or not. But, if a gunman is pointing a gun at someone they present an imminent deadly threat, shots fired or not. He points it at me or my family, I'm going to respond with deadly force, given the opportunity. If he is pointing it at someone else, I'm going to need to know enough about the situation to decide.


Well said. Regarding the bolded, if you just come up on a situation like this without knowing more information, the person holding a gun on someone could be a law abiding carrier defending against a criminal, or an off duty cop holding a gun on a suspect.
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Re: Surveillance video released in Kansas Costco incident

Postby djthomas » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:15 pm

Hopefully Costco will be sending letters to the addresses on file for both the estate of the perp and the off-duty officer letting them know that their members enjoy a gun free environment, and since their conduct violated the membership agreement, neither is welcome on the premises any longer.
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Re: Surveillance video released in Kansas Costco incident

Postby steves 50de » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:47 pm

Javelin Man wrote:If said gunman hadn't fired a shot, how many of us would have taken out the perp? It's a good shot for a police officer or off-duty same, but we'd be looked at under a different microscope.

Right, its not a CHL holders job to protect the sheep. The police will always get a pass in this situation,... a CHL holder maybe not.
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