Texas Church shooting

[catfish86]

I was a legal specialist in the Army. A Bad Conduct Discharge is usually only after prison time. A Dishonorable Discharge is similar but worse, usually rapists and murderers, etc. BCD is not an automatic loss of firearms rights however the domestic violence conviction is plenty for that purpose.

https://themilitarywallet.com/types-of- ... ischarges/

According to ABC News the shooter was fired from his waterpark security guard job this summer after issues with his background check. The Governor says he was denied a concealed carry permit. Yet he was able to buy a gun. My thought is the Feds didn't outright deny the purchase, put a hold on it and then failed to get it done in 3 days, at which point the gun shop opted to go ahead with the sale.

[dl1911]

Right now I'd guess that the background check for a Texas CHL is more than a quick NICS check that would be done when purchasing a firearm. Or there may be additional conditions unrelated to NICS that caused him to be denied. I forget the exact circumstances but here in Ohio you can pass a NICS but not be eligible for a CHL.

My question, has anyone reported what the neighbor/good guy used to stop it? All I've seen is that he used a rifle. Wonder if the media is filtering that it was an AR since that would go against the ARs are useless for defense narrative they usually scream.

[drc]

Here is the answer about the DV issue

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06/ai ... -guns.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Air Force was negligent in reporting it. I wonder if there is going to be any legal ramifications over this.

[Brian D.]

Right now I'd guess that the background check for a Texas CHL is more than a quick NICS check that would be done when purchasing a firearm. Or there may be additional conditions unrelated to NICS that caused him to be denied. I forget the exact circumstances but here in Ohio you can pass a NICS but not be eligible for a CHL.

My question, has anyone reported what the neighbor/good guy used to stop it? All I've seen is that he used a rifle. Wonder if the media is filtering that it was an AR since that would go against the ARs are useless for defense narrative they usually scream.

A few reports state the good guy used an AR of some kind.

[Brian D.]

Here is the answer about the DV issue

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06/ai ... -guns.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Air Force was negligent in reporting it. I wonder if there is going to be any legal ramifications over this.

The military has plenty of clerks, that's who will get blamed, someone low level. Even if it's not the true story.
ESPECIALLY if it's not the true story.

[JediSkipdogg]

Here is the answer about the DV issue

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06/ai ... -guns.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Air Force was negligent in reporting it. I wonder if there is going to be any legal ramifications over this.

The military has plenty of clerks, that's who will get blamed, someone low level. Even if it's not the true story.
ESPECIALLY if it's not the true story.

Sadly happens all the time here in Ohio. The AG says it's like a multi-million dollar issue with no easy fix in sight. I find flaws all the time when running people.

[M-Quigley]

I haven't found a internet source yet, but I heard on the hourly radio news that the sheriff of that county (who has viewed the inside surveillance video) was asked if anyone inside had a firearm (besides the killer) and the answer was predictably "No". Now I know the anti C.C types will say, like they always do, that it wouldn't have made any difference, because (according to them) it is almost impossible for ordinary citizens to defend against a so called assault rifle with a mere handgun inside a room. They actually say a lot more than that on the subject, some of which borders on the bizarre. The thing is though, if someone had been armed, they might've at least had a chance to defend themselves. The more people that are armed in the group, the better the odds are that the killer is stopped by someone before he shoots everybody in the room instead of after.
This is not meant to diminish what the neighbor with the rifle did though, because it was the people inside the church who made the decision to be defenseless, not him.

[M-Quigley]

Here is the answer about the DV issue

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06/ai ... -guns.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Air Force was negligent in reporting it. I wonder if there is going to be any legal ramifications over this.

The military has plenty of clerks, that's who will get blamed, someone low level. Even if it's not the true story.
ESPECIALLY if it's not the true story.

Sadly happens all the time here in Ohio. The AG says it's like a multi-million dollar issue with no easy fix in sight. I find flaws all the time when running people.

Whether he got the guns legally or not wouldn't have made a difference. Even if the system were perfect, and even if all private purchases were supposed to go through background checks, he would've just gotten it illegally somewhere, just like you can illegally buy anything. If the goal is to commit a murder anyway, a gun charge is insignificant. The solution to reducing the number of casualties IMO isn't about how many guns the killer has, or how he got them, but how many potential victims are armed in some way also.

[djthomas]

Right now I'd guess that the background check for a Texas CHL is more than a quick NICS check that would be done when purchasing a firearm. Or there may be additional conditions unrelated to NICS that caused him to be denied. I forget the exact circumstances but here in Ohio you can pass a NICS but not be eligible for a CHL.

As the holder of a Texas HCL [sic] the only thing I can think of is the fact that you have to disclose all arrests on your HCL application. Each will be individually investigated. If the guy was able to buy guns at retail he probably figured he was good to go so he dutifully filled out the form only to have a more complete investigation come back with the correct status when his arrest was looked at. How many times have we had people come here saying I got into a fight with my dad /ex-wife 10 years ago ... it was knocked down to disorderly conduct ... I've bought plenty of guns since then ... will I have any problems getting my Ohio CHL? Then we all go "oh nosers, quickly call a lawyer, find someone to hold your guns and ask the mods to delete this thread!!"

It happens with some regularity. The fact of the matter is the system isn't perfect. Having an incompetent federal government on straightforward cases like this one doesn't help either.

IMO when a state becomes aware of an obviously unreported disability while conducting an investigation there should be a process to tell NICS to go get the correct information from the source. Kind of like disputing inaccurate items on your credit report but in reverse.

[catfish86]

As to a background check stopping the shooter from obtaining firearms, how does that stop him? The gas station across the street sells matches and lighters as well as gasoline I am sure. You have a wood building with two exits full of people....

As to a pistol being no good against assault weapons...if the shooter of an assault weapon is hit by a bullet from a pistol in a vital area, he is dead and the guy with the pistol wins. Same thing with a knife. Odds are better if you have an assault weapon as opposed to a pistol but the pistol has better odds than an unarmed person.

[3FULLMAGS+1]

As of about 2000, on Fox for quite some time, no mention of "gun control", but I'm expecting that the usual suspects will be out there trying to ban whatever weapons the BG used, and whatever the "civilian" used to punch (possibly) the subject's ticket.

Zero has apparently come out with with a "gun control" message just reported on Fox, and I think that Hitlery and the rest have jumped in for more control, too.

I really can't understand why NOBODY in the Church was able to get a shot off (presuming that anybody was carrying), but somebody said that we should ban "bump stocks", so who knows how fast this went down.

It is, I think, a call for everybody who's willing to carry, to do so in Houses of Worship, and that any legal barriers be dropped.

But what do I know? My wife doesn't understand it....

Regards,

Stu, if I recall, your church refuses to allow you to carry, right ?

Whatcha gonna do about it ?......just curious.

[SMMAssociates]

Stu, if I recall, your church refuses to allow you to carry, right ?

Whatcha gonna do about it ?......just curious.

Darrel:

It's a Synagogue , but....

When we discussed this last on here, I had just met with the board, or was about to. The Rabbi at the time didn't want to touch it....

He's since retired, but the two guys who replaced him (very long story) would, at best, be a split decision. One's unwilling to discuss it. The other one is into Democratic politics (currently a candidate for a City position), and probably would stick to the Party Line.

Meantime, there's one board member who's possibly carrying with no CHL. I have to call him - he want's to get a CHL....

There's another board member who's a retired LEO. He's carrying under LEOSA, and doesn't understand that it's a legal problem for him....

Someday, I hope, we'll talk the Legislature into fixing this, or at least get it off the Felony list. Meantime, I stay away....

Time to toss "Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?" at 'em again, given the matter in TX.

Regards,

[techmike]

Two updates - The Air Force admits they did not file the killer's crime data so it didn't get entered into the Fed data base - he passed a background check. The local hero that engaged the killer is a former NRA instructor.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/t ... hurch.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/11/ ... as-killer/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 'left' will lose their collective minds over the NRA ties.

[rimfireOH]

The 'left' will lose their collective minds over the NRA ties.

I'm going to guess the left will largely and quietly ignore this.

[Bruenor]

Crowder interviews Stephen Willeford
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4HEchh0XD8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was an AR15 with an Eotech, that he used to engage the shooter.