man goes to car to get gun then shoots 2 home invaders

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M-Quigley
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man goes to car to get gun then shoots 2 home invaders

Post by M-Quigley »

http://wjla.com/news/nation-world/ohio- ... -intruders" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the one hand, I'm glad it's another example of a successful DGU. :) I wonder about this however, probably not the best place to have your gun in that situation. :roll:
Police say two men broke into the home on Kenoak Lane just after 3 a.m.

That's when 24-year-old Gary Gross grabbed a hammer and confronted the two intruders that he says he's never seen before.

After a brief struggle, Gross says he ran outside, grabbed a gun from his car, ran back inside and then shot both men who fled from the house and drove away.
and
The suspects were located a short time later and taken to U.C. Medical Center.

One of the men is in critical condition, the other is in stable condition. Their names have not been released at this time.
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Re: man goes to car to get gun then shoots 2 home invaders

Post by DontTreadOnMe »

He ran back into the house? Why, and would that still be self-defense?
Gross says his girlfriend and son were in the house at the time of the home invasion.

"You have to do what you got to do. You have to make sure that these guys do not make it to that back room. Your son is back there. If anything happens to you, he's defenseless, she's defenseless."
That's why, and in this case yes.
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Re: man goes to car to get gun then shoots 2 home invaders

Post by M-Quigley »

DontTreadOnMe wrote:He ran back into the house? Why, and would that still be self-defense?
Gross says his girlfriend and son were in the house at the time of the home invasion.

"You have to do what you got to do. You have to make sure that these guys do not make it to that back room. Your son is back there. If anything happens to you, he's defenseless, she's defenseless."
That's why, and in this case yes.
I understand why he ran back into the house, and that it is self defense, or rather defense of others. I was questioning the tactic of having to get a gun that is in the car in the middle of the home invasion. Perhaps I should've posted this under tactics, but it's nice to see another positive DGU in the news, since the news tends to post mainly negative gun related stories.
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Re: man goes to car to get gun then shoots 2 home invaders

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I can see where the gun was left in the car. I have run errands where on the way back I have had to go into the post office (disarmed and locked gun in car box) which is about 3 miles from home and left gun in car upon arriving home. Having to go out later to retrieve it after bring in the groceries.
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Re: man goes to car to get gun then shoots 2 home invaders

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qmti wrote:I can see where the gun was left in the car. I have run errands where on the way back I have had to go into the post office (disarmed and locked gun in car box) which is about 3 miles from home and left gun in car upon arriving home. Having to go out later to retrieve it after bring in the groceries.
I guess it makes sense if it was unintentional. Someone in my house who shall remain nameless commented that perhaps since there was a young child in the house, he might've had the gun in the car instead of the house for safety purposes.
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Re: man goes to car to get gun then shoots 2 home invaders

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M-Quigley wrote:
qmti wrote:I can see where the gun was left in the car. I have run errands where on the way back I have had to go into the post office (disarmed and locked gun in car box) which is about 3 miles from home and left gun in car upon arriving home. Having to go out later to retrieve it after bring in the groceries.
I guess it makes sense if it was unintentional. Someone in my house who shall remain nameless commented that perhaps since there was a young child in the house, he might've had the gun in the car instead of the house for safety purposes.
That's a good point. The car is the least safest place for gun storage in my opinion. I hate having to leave it in the car for ANY reason, even to go into a "no gun" zone establishment like the post office. Stuff happens fast when your not in control of your protection. And I'm not talking about the one in your wallet. :oops:
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Re: man goes to car to get gun then shoots 2 home invaders

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Please correct me if I'm wrong, I thought defense of others was not considered justifiable self defense.
Not that I wouldn't have done the same thing. Justified or not, my family is the same as protecting myself. :wink:
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Re: man goes to car to get gun then shoots 2 home invaders

Post by JustaShooter »

Notasmiff wrote:Please correct me if I'm wrong, I thought defense of others was not considered justifiable self defense.
OK, you are wrong lol. :mrgreen:

Ohio law allows for use of deadly force in defense of self or others if in immediate danger of death or severe bodily harm. Same rules apply as if you are defending yourself, so you better be darn sure of the situation before intervening. In this case, it's pretty obvious of course.
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Re: man goes to car to get gun then shoots 2 home invaders

Post by Jim-in-Toledo »

http://opd.ohio.gov/The-Library/Crimina ... of-another
State v. Harris (1998), 129 Ohio App. 3d 527 -- Fear, which is the basis for self-defense, is distinguishable from rage, which is the basis of the mitigating factor in the voluntary manslaughter statute. In the context of deadly force, the affirmative defense of defense of another is not limited to family members. Nor is it necessary to show the person defended was aware of the danger he or she faced. It must be shown that the defendant's belief that the use of deadly force was necessary, that the person defended was not at fault for creating the situation, and that the person aided did not violate any duty to retreat.
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Re: man goes to car to get gun then shoots 2 home invaders

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JustaShooter wrote:
Notasmiff wrote:Please correct me if I'm wrong, I thought defense of others was not considered justifiable self defense.
OK, you are wrong lol. :mrgreen:

Ohio law allows for use of deadly force in defense of self or others if in immediate danger of death or severe bodily harm. Same rules apply as if you are defending yourself, so you better be darn sure of the situation before intervening. In this case, it's pretty obvious of course.
I will engage the threat immediately to protect my family. But, when it comes to others I will think twice or more. Today it's all about liability. Do I want to lose all I have in a lawsuit if I'm incorrect on my actions? Protecting others with deadly force takes on a host of consequences I'm not willing to take.
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Re: man goes to car to get gun then shoots 2 home invaders

Post by M-Quigley »

qmti wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
Notasmiff wrote:Please correct me if I'm wrong, I thought defense of others was not considered justifiable self defense.
OK, you are wrong lol. :mrgreen:

Ohio law allows for use of deadly force in defense of self or others if in immediate danger of death or severe bodily harm. Same rules apply as if you are defending yourself, so you better be darn sure of the situation before intervening. In this case, it's pretty obvious of course.
I will engage the threat immediately to protect my family. But, when it comes to others I will think twice or more. Today it's all about liability. Do I want to lose all I have in a lawsuit if I'm incorrect on my actions? Protecting others with deadly force takes on a host of consequences I'm not willing to take.
Sometimes it's not just the liability aspect, if you rush to a certain action. It can also be a tactical concern as well. A CHL holder out west lost his life by too quickly intervening in a crime, without taking just a little time to properly assess the situation or position himself in a safer position, when the first criminals accomplice shot him. When you see a crime in progress, it's natural to get some tunnel vision on the BG, but that can be a problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQOHBSuY7TM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was in a force on force exercise once where someone came into a store for a armed robbery scenario. The first robber had a (not obvious) accomplice who had a concealed weapon, and he had positioned himself away from the obvious robber. In fact he came in first, and by all appearances could've been just another customer. This guy was not going to draw his weapon until he saw an action, like me intervening in some way, when my focus would be on the robber. I was not informed about the accomplice before the exercise. Because I had positioned myself properly in the room first, before immediately reacting, I was able to defeat the first threat without getting immediately shot by the accomplice.
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