Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby docachna » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:19 pm

JediSkipdogg wrote:

Now, the part I'm highly puzzled about is how they are filing this in California. I don't see how any court in CA would have legal jurisdiction over the MGM or Live Nation Entertainment, neither of which are in CA if I heard correctly.


I imagine that creating Federal Court jurisdiction in California is the easiest thing they'll encounter. Likely both do business in CA. Won't need much more than that.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby djthomas » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:09 pm

docachna wrote:
JediSkipdogg wrote:Now, the part I'm highly puzzled about is how they are filing this in California. I don't see how any court in CA would have legal jurisdiction over the MGM or Live Nation Entertainment, neither of which are in CA if I heard correctly.


I imagine that creating Federal Court jurisdiction in California is the easiest thing they'll encounter. Likely both do business in CA. Won't need much more than that.

Bristol-Myers Squibb Co. v. Superior Court raised the bar significantly on forum shopping. Merely doing business in a state is no longer guaranteed jurisdiction, particularly when the actual injury occurred elsewhere.

On a related note it’s an interesting legal claim but one that has generally not fared well. Foreseeable danger does not usually include criminal actions of others. Otherwise we’d see successful suits whenever a bank gets robbed because clearly if you run a bank you might get robbed. I’ve never heard of a successful claim where there wasn’t some clearly known and specific threat that was willfully ignored. A guy with lots of luggage that comes in over days probably doesn’t qualify.

Now...the suit against the venue might have some legs to the extent that they didn’t have a good evacuation process since those are required by law just about everywhere.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby catfish86 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:58 am

My predictions:

Bump Stock companies get out based on the legal firearms sales being protected from such suits, creating a firestorm to repeal that law.

MGM will get off based on not so much foreseeability but no reasonable measures being available to counter the incident. Unless there is a strip search of everyone checking in...that ain't happening.

The concert venue and promoters however will get hammered. Reason? Foreseeability is heavily weighted by prior incidents but lack of them is not a complete bar. Come on, once I saw that sight and have heard the various accounts one thought struck me: Was the security team so dumb as to not see the need for a counter-sniper team which is present at any event with major political figures? As to prior incidents of shootings on crowds from small buildings, let's start with the 1960s and the Texas U Clock Tower, Kennedy Assassination just for beginning. We had discussed earlier about the shot involved and I regularly performed similar shots with open sights with my standard issue M16. This guy should have been plugged after the first couple of bursts.

Forum was clearly selected because California is severely biased against firearms. That will be a major battle.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby bignflnut » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:45 am

According to some, this is the first information on the record suggesting that the gunman may have had help.

The warrant goes on to read "Investigators believe these communications may have been related to the eventual attack that occurred at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas."

SNIP

Investigators say he planned to survive the assault and escape, and had set up several surveillance cameras in various locations throughout the room, the peep hole of his door, and in the hallway outside.

SNIP

U.S. District Judge Jennifer Dorsey unsealed the warrants on Friday, as she said she saw no reason to keep them sealed - however 10 pages were withheld pending a hearing in state court Tuesday morning.


The document also explains that there was “probable cause” and cited the following violations A through D:

a. Destruction/Damage of Aircraft or Aircraft Facilities – 18 U.S.C.A. 32(a);

b. – Violence at International Airport – 18 U.S.C. and

c. Unlawful Interstate Transport/Delivery of Firearms by Non Federal
Firearms Licensee 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and

d. Aiding and Abetting 13 U.S.C. 2.

TOTAL DECEPTION: Newly unsealed FBI search warrants reveal @lvmpd @FBILasVegas LIED
when they said #StephenPaddock’s GF Mary Lou Danley didn’t participate in #LasVegasShooting!

“Subject offenses have been committed by Stephen Paddock, Mary Lou Danley, and others yet unknown.” pic.twitter.com/J0mPA1HpSO

— Laura Loomer (@LauraLoomer) January 13, 2018

Since we are just now learning that #StephenPaddock had at least 7 cell phones, which one did Mary Lou Daley call him on, and who was he calling on the other 6+ cell phones investigators discovered? #LasVegasShooting

You know what they call multiple cell phones? BURNER PHONES. https://t.co/tpjPj2WFOR

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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby TSiWRX » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:25 pm

LVMPD Preliminary Investigative Report, 1/18/2018: https://www.lvmpd.com/en-us/Documents/1 ... tnoted.pdf
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby techmike » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:26 pm

Jeez Louise. 13 AR15's and 5 AR 10's. And a .38 with 1 expended round.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby marca » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:57 pm

techmike wrote:Jeez Louise. 13 AR15's and 5 AR 10's. And a .38 with 1 expended round.

Wouldn't you want one trusted gun and maybe one backup gun. Any more would just be more trouble and additional risk of discovery. Maybe just further proof the guy was a total whack job.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby Javelin Man » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:55 pm

How many rifles were jammed and thrown down to be replaced with a working one?
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby TSiWRX » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:17 pm

Javelin Man wrote:How many rifles were jammed and thrown down to be replaced with a working one?


That's a great question, and one that I wonder about, too.....

His weapons are impressive..... Quoting from the report, pages 41 through 43, just of what he had on-hand at the hotel - my apologies for the formatting, I just did a quick copy-paste. :oops:

Make Model Serial Number Description

Colt M4 Carbine LE451984 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock,
vertical fore grip and 100 round
magazine. Front sight only.

Noveske N4 B15993
AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock,
vertical fore grip and 40 round
magazine. EOTech optic.

LWRC M61C
24-18648 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock,
vertical fore grip and 100 round
magazine. No sights or optics.

POF USA P-308 UA-1600204 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, scope and
25 round magazine.

Christensen
Arms
CA-15 CA04625
AR-15 .223 Wylde with a bump stock,
vertical fore grip and 100 round
magazine. No sights or optics.

POF USA P-15 PE-1600179 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock,
vertical fore grip and 100 round
magazine. No sights or optics.

Colt Competition CCR014544 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock,
vertical fore grip and 100 round
magazine. No sights or optics.

LWRC M61C 5P03902
AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock,
vertical fore grip and 100 round
magazine. EOTech optic.

FNH FM15 FND000905
AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, scope and
25 round magazine.

Daniel
Defense
DD5V1 DD5007426
AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, scope and
25 round magazine.

FNH FN15 FNB024293 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock,
vertical fore grip and 100 round
magazine. EOTech optic.

POF USA P15 03E-1603178 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock,
vertical fore grip and 100 round
magazine. EOTech optic.

Colt M4 Carbine LE564124 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock,
vertical fore grip and 100 round
magazine.

Daniel
Defense
M4A1 DDM4123629 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock,
vertical fore grip and 100 round
magazine. EOTech optic.

LMT Def. 2000 LMT81745 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock,
vertical fore grip and 100 round
magazine. No sights or optics.

Daniel
Defense
DDM4V11 DDM4078072 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock,
vertical fore grip. No magazine. EOTech
optic.

Sig Sauer SIG716 23D020868 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, red dot
optic and 25 round magazine.

Daniel
Defense
DD5V1 DD5008362 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod and scope.
No magazine.

FNH FN15 FNCR000383 AR-15 .223/5.56 with a bump stock,
vertical fore grip and 100 round
magazine. No sights or optics.

LMT LM308MWS
LMS18321 AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod and red
dot scope. No magazine.

Ruger SR0762 562-13026
AR-10 .308/7.62 with a bipod, scope and
25 round magazine.

LMT LM308MWS
LMS18300 AR-10 with a bipod, scope and 25 round
magazine.


I'm not very well-versed with the .308/7.62 variants, so I will stick with the .223/5.56 only - and those are some good quality examples of that genre. There's not a make/model in that list that I would have turned my nose up at if given to me as a gift. Even run completely bone-dry, I would be surprised that any of them would have shut down within parameters of the 100-round Surefire magazines that we have seen inserted into the gun in the various scene photos published to-date.

That said, I do not know how the interplay would be with the bump-fire stocks.

My understanding has been that both the 60 and 100-round Surefire magazines have had somewhat of a variable reputation, where it comes to reliability. Few folks have and routinely use the 100-rounders, apparently because of their weight, but a lot of folks say that they've never had any trouble with their 60-rounders. The 40-round Magpuls are solid, though.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby Bruenor » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:23 pm

Interesting list of firearms and not cheap ones either.. but why spend so much on firearms and not put sights or optics on half of them.. what's the point ?

For the price of the 60 and 100 rounders along with the spotty reliability reports, I've stuck with the 40 rounders as well. Can buy quite a few of the 40 rounders for the price of the 60's and 100's.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby Chuck » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:33 am

TSiWRX wrote:LVMPD Preliminary Investigative Report, 1/18/2018: https://www.lvmpd.com/en-us/Documents/1 ... tnoted.pdf


Thank you for this post
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby TSiWRX » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:03 pm

^ Glad to contribute. :)

-----

Bruenor wrote:Interesting list of firearms and not cheap ones either.. but why spend so much on firearms and not put sights or optics on half of them.. what's the point ?


That's a puzzler for me, too. He obviously has the dough.

Maybe he just never got around to sighting those other guns in, even?

I guess, though, we still don't have the full picture in so far as the nitty-gritty details go: it could very well be that he'd had a couple of high-dollar magnified optics in that mix, paired with Q/D mounts so that he could swap between the guns. Of-course, that would have been assuming that he was a normal shooter, using the guns for legitimate purposes. I guess when one's emptying the armory in the midst of a psychotic break or planned rage event and looking to just rain massive carnage, sights probably aren't really that important? :? :?: :!:

For the price of the 60 and 100 rounders along with the spotty reliability reports, I've stuck with the 40 rounders as well. Can buy quite a few of the 40 rounders for the price of the 60's and 100's.


The Magpul D60s are very reliable as well.

These two factors together - the mags and the sights - makes me wonder just how much of a true shooting enthusiast he was.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby pk47 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:57 pm

TSiWRX wrote:
Bruenor wrote:Interesting list of firearms and not cheap ones either.. but why spend so much on firearms and not put sights or optics on half of them.. what's the point ?

That's a puzzler for me, too. He obviously has the dough.

If your plan and goal is to eventually shoot into a large crowd, the rifle configurations fit. So you buy the higher capacity mags and not sights/optics.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby TSiWRX » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:52 am

I get that.....but still, no sights at all? :P Definitely spray and pray!
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Postby bignflnut » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:53 pm

LAS VEGAS (AP) - A court error publicly revealed the name of a Mesa man identified as a person of interest in the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

Clark County District Court Judge Elissa Cadish acknowledged that a member of her court staff failed to black out the man's name on one of 276 pages of documents released to news organizations including The Associated Press and Las Vegas Review-Journal.

After the error was recognized, lawyers for the news organizations were told to return the documents. The attorney representing AP and other media did so, but the other lawyer had already transmitted the documents and the Review-Journal published Douglas Haig's name online.

Cadish later ordered the document not be published without redactions, but she acknowledged she couldn't order the newspaper to retract the name.

"The reality is, now that it is online, there is nothing I can do," Cadish said.
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