Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

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bignflnut
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Post by bignflnut »

...the White House warned lawmakers not to turn the shooting into a “political debate” about gun control before all the facts have been determined. This turned out to be a prescient, because, as the public would later learn, it appears that Steve Paddock, the shooter, purchased his guns legally.

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Before purchasing guns from two licensed dealers earlier this year, Paddock passed federally mandated background checks. In an interview with NBC, the owner of a gun dealer where Paddock purchased weapons earlier this year said ATF agents had interviewed the employee who made the sale, and confirmed that the dealer had followed all legally necessary procedures before completing the sales.

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In Paddock’s case, tighter restrictions on gun sales likely wouldn’t have made a difference: He used a device called a "bump-stock" to convert semi-automatic rifles into automatic weapons, according to Bloomberg. The bump-stock device essentially replaces the gun's shoulder rest, with a "support step" that covers the trigger opening. By holding the pistol grip with one hand and pushing forward on the barrel with the other, the shooter's finger comes in contact with the trigger. The recoil causes the gun to buck back and forth, "bumping" the trigger.

Technically, that means the finger is pulling the trigger for each round fired, keeping the weapon a legal semi-automatic.

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Because the federal gun-sales tracing system is woefully out of date, it could be days before authorities determine the provenance of all 23 weapons in Paddock’s arsenal.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Post by bignflnut »

Here come the weapons photos...
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

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If anything good comes out of this perhaps it will be a rethinking of mass evacuation procedures. The 1979 The Who concert in Cincinnati caused such a rethinking. As we harden our targets we erect barriers and limited access points to screen everybody coming in. But once that bad thing is inside those limited access points become choke points and panicked evacuations cannot occur. There is no such thing as an orderly evacuation when a bomb goes off or a shooter is on the loose. Realistically only one person at a time can walk through a metal detector mounted to the ground. That's far fewer than the open gate on the other side of those things could otherwise accommodate. IMO once you reach a fence or gate you should never have more than 75 or 100 feet to reach an exit.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Post by JediSkipdogg »

bignflnut wrote:Here come the weapons photos...
Is that a bump/slide fire stock? I see the ATF flip flopping their letter on this one again. :roll:
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Post by deanimator »

JediSkipdogg wrote:
bignflnut wrote:Here come the weapons photos...
Is that a bump/slide fire stock? I see the ATF flip flopping their letter on this one again. :roll:
No, it's not.

I believe somebody identified it as a standard Daniel Defense stock, adjustable for length of pull.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Post by DontTreadOnMe »

The one in the 2nd photo looks an awful lot like the Slide Fire bump stock.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Post by Bruenor »

deanimator wrote:
JediSkipdogg wrote:
bignflnut wrote:Here come the weapons photos...
Is that a bump/slide fire stock? I see the ATF flip flopping their letter on this one again. :roll:
No, it's not.

I believe somebody identified it as a standard Daniel Defense stock, adjustable for length of pull.
The second picture with the vertical foregrip has a slidefire stock on it.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Post by deanimator »

Bruenor wrote:The second picture with the vertical foregrip has a slidefire stock on it.
It certainly looks like it.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Post by Brian D. »

djthomas wrote:If anything good comes out of this perhaps it will be a rethinking of mass evacuation procedures. The 1979 The Who concert in Cincinnati caused such a rethinking. As we harden our targets we erect barriers and limited access points to screen everybody coming in. But once that bad thing is inside those limited access points become choke points and panicked evacuations cannot occur. There is no such thing as an orderly evacuation when a bomb goes off or a shooter is on the loose. Realistically only one person at a time can walk through a metal detector mounted to the ground. That's far fewer than the open gate on the other side of those things could otherwise accommodate. IMO once you reach a fence or gate you should never have more than 75 or 100 feet to reach an exit.
Not that it's of critical importance, but I've been wondering how many of the dead/wounded in Las Vegas were actually shot, as opposed to trampled during what must have been a chaotic attempt to escape.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Post by catfish86 »

Thing is with the bump stock, banning them would mean nothing. All you need is a belt loop or the buttons on your shirt to hook your trigger finger into. Rednecks have been doing this since the semi-auto rifle came into being.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Post by deanimator »

Brian D. wrote:Not that it's of critical importance, but I've been wondering how many of the dead/wounded in Las Vegas were actually shot, as opposed to trampled during what must have been a chaotic attempt to escape.
Actually, it's quite important, since there are some wild stories going around (I had one emailed to me a little while ago), premised on ***500*** people being WOUNDED by GUNSHOTS.

The odds are that the VAST majority of them were injured trying to get away and weren't shot at all.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Post by carmen fovozzo »

Question....It was written that the time elapsed between start of shooting and the breach of the shooters room was about 1 1/2 hours.....What was hotel security doing all this time ?
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

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carmen fovozzo wrote:Question....It was written that the time elapsed between start of shooting and the breach of the shooters room was about 1 1/2 hours.....What was hotel security doing all this time ?
Apparently one of them got shot in the leg.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Post by djthomas »

At least the hotels in Vegas have real armed security teams, able, willing, and allowed to go with LEOs in a mass cas situation. Pretty much anywhere else if they even have security it's going to be a contracted, poorly trained kid in an ill-fitting uniform who can barely direct guests to the lobby bathroom in coherent sentences, let alone scavenge the premises for an active shooter.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas

Post by JediSkipdogg »

carmen fovozzo wrote:Question....It was written that the time elapsed between start of shooting and the breach of the shooters room was about 1 1/2 hours.....What was hotel security doing all this time ?
My guess is helping to evacuate surrounding floors and keeping some amount of crowd control in the hotel.
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