Ding ding ding. Another good point.JustaShooter wrote:Not sure how the drone would have helped - by the time you got drone on-site and deployed, you are in the same time frame as the police response that ended the shooting in the first place.
Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
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- JediSkipdogg
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
How is me getting shot without any reasonable chance of success help anyone down below? And how would you get into that room? I'm too fat now to crawl through some ventilation ducts like John McCain in Die Hard.Brian D. wrote:Okay, those who commented on my hypothetical missed something important: You have figured out that the shooter is firing into a giant crowd of people across the street. Pretty sure if you were staying at Mandalay, you'd have been aware of the big concert taking place nearby. Within the parameters I listed, I would be trying to get through to the shooter's room.JediSkipdogg wrote:How do you know which room to intervene at? Most hotels you can't see much out the windows. And if you do pinpoint the room, do you really make a decision to bust the door in yourself and go in guns blazing? Sorry, but I'd just stay in my room and hunker down till the chaos ends. I don't carry enough items to go against an AR and from that elevation, one would know it was definitely an AR.Brian D. wrote:
Imagine yourselves being in a room a few doors down from the shooter's: You hear the noise, call 911, look out your window, and figure out what's going on 50 feet away from you. Gonna just hunker down, or maybe try to intervene?
I've been in one situation that was vaguely similar to my hypothetical and questions, and did what turned out to be the correct thing. I'll get back to this and tell you about it after reading some responses, if anyone cares to palaver about it.
From the news link:
When Campos first arrived on the 32nd floor, he did so by elevator because Paddock had somehow blocked stairwell doors leading to the hallway outside of his room, Hickey said. The door to the room itself was also barricaded, Campos found when he tried to open it, just before the bullets came through the door.
Police officers subsequently approached the room and were met with 200 rounds from Paddock, Lombardo said on Wednesday night. Police fell back until SWAT arrived.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
Whatever methods someone is talking about when dealing with an active shooter and a 22,000 person crowd should be pre positioned, on site somewhere, before the event ever starts, not merely called in from downtown somewhere.JustaShooter wrote:Not sure how the drone would have helped - by the time you got drone on-site and deployed, you are in the same time frame as the police response that ended the shooting in the first place.
I'm surprised there wasn't some private individuals with drones there that night. I went to an outdoor Halloween festival at night last year, had thousands of people, and there were 3 different types of drones there. Might've been illegal, but no one was charged with anything. I know one of them at least was privately owned, because I saw the teenage operator. It concerns me now because it wouldn't have taken a whole lot of technical knowledge for someone to attach an explosive to it. I've read ISIS has already done it in the Middle East.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
Unlike the public that can easily violate FAA laws....police departments generally try to follow laws. Nothing like the argument of your local police department doesn't follow drone laws. As for who enforces drone laws, they are all FAA regulations and generally go unenforced. Nearly the same as most postal regulations in this country.M-Quigley wrote:Whatever methods someone is talking about when dealing with an active shooter and a 22,000 person crowd should be pre positioned, on site somewhere, before the event ever starts, not merely called in from downtown somewhere.JustaShooter wrote:Not sure how the drone would have helped - by the time you got drone on-site and deployed, you are in the same time frame as the police response that ended the shooting in the first place.
I'm surprised there wasn't some private individuals with drones there that night. I went to an outdoor Halloween festival at night last year, had thousands of people, and there were 3 different types of drones there. Might've been illegal, but no one was charged with anything. I know one of them at least was privately owned, because I saw the teenage operator. It concerns me now because it wouldn't have taken a whole lot of technical knowledge for someone to attach an explosive to it. I've read ISIS has already done it in the Middle East.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
Again, you missed part of my hypothetical: Your room is on the same floor as the shooter's. (This is why I don't start many "what if?" discussions online.) In that particular circumstance, I would have been trying to kick down that door, and/or return fire through it. Might have gotten me instantly killed, who knows? Keep in mind I have no wife or kids to keep me from trying, just a big dog that would miss me.M-Quigley wrote:
How is me getting shot without any reasonable chance of success help anyone down below? And how would you get into that room? I'm too fat now to crawl through some ventilation ducts like John McCain in Die Hard.
From the news link:
When Campos first arrived on the 32nd floor, he did so by elevator because Paddock had somehow blocked stairwell doors leading to the hallway outside of his room, Hickey said. The door to the room itself was also barricaded, Campos found when he tried to open it, just before the bullets came through the door.
Police officers subsequently approached the room and were met with 200 rounds from Paddock, Lombardo said on Wednesday night. Police fell back until SWAT arrived.
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- deanimator
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
Likewise.Brian D. wrote:I would have been trying to kick down that door, and/or return fire through it. Might have gotten me instantly killed, who knows? Keep in mind I have no wife or kids to keep me from trying, just a big dog that would miss me.
I don't even have the dog (maybe the centipedes and spiders would miss me), so there's no reason for me not to give it a try.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
I believe you would...Brian D. wrote:Again, you missed part of my hypothetical: Your room is on the same floor as the shooter's. (This is why I don't start many "what if?" discussions online.) In that particular circumstance, I would have been trying to kick down that door, and/or return fire through it. Might have gotten me instantly killed, who knows? Keep in mind I have no wife or kids to keep me from trying, just a big dog that would miss me.M-Quigley wrote:
How is me getting shot without any reasonable chance of success help anyone down below? And how would you get into that room? I'm too fat now to crawl through some ventilation ducts like John McCain in Die Hard.
From the news link:
When Campos first arrived on the 32nd floor, he did so by elevator because Paddock had somehow blocked stairwell doors leading to the hallway outside of his room, Hickey said. The door to the room itself was also barricaded, Campos found when he tried to open it, just before the bullets came through the door.
Police officers subsequently approached the room and were met with 200 rounds from Paddock, Lombardo said on Wednesday night. Police fell back until SWAT arrived.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
I bet the dog would miss him.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
Got a contingency for my dog outliving me, one friend would adopt him in a heartbeat. Of course the dog may have plans of his own..schmieg wrote:I bet the dog would miss him.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
You could have a life insurance policy on himBrian D. wrote:Got a contingency for my dog outliving me, one friend would adopt him in a heartbeat. Of course the dog may have plans of his own..schmieg wrote:I bet the dog would miss him.
I don't think he can receive a life insurance benefit on you (but I'm sure someone is working on that).
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
you could have the life insurance pay the benefit into a trust. then the trust could care for the dog.
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
OK I get that you aren't going to run headlong into room with someone shooting at you until you are prepared. The comments from the sheriff make it sound like the SWAT team responded and stormed the room in record time to stop the shooter, not ~70 minutes later.
http://fox8.com/2017/10/09/las-vegas-po ... mans-room/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They finally cleared up the 'note' that was left behind. Ballistic drop calculations.
http://fox8.com/2017/10/08/source-las-v ... ing-crowd/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://fox8.com/2017/10/09/las-vegas-po ... mans-room/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Was the loser still shooting at the crowd after the first group approached his room and got shot at through the door ? or did he off himself at that point ? If so it was the first group that stopped the shooter and not the ones that breached the door. I haven't seen anything that clarifies this point, or I missed it.An improvised team of Las Vegas police officers — two K-9 officers, a detective and a SWAT team member — converged on the Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino on October 1, as Stephen Paddock was firing into a crowd of 22,000 concertgoers. Minutes later, they breached the gunman’s hotel room door.
It was specialized training that allowed them to act so quickly, Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo told CBS’ 60 Minutes.
“I think they prevented a thousand deaths, and I think it’s important for the American public to understand that,” Lombardo said Sunday.
They finally cleared up the 'note' that was left behind. Ballistic drop calculations.
http://fox8.com/2017/10/08/source-las-v ... ing-crowd/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A handwritten note in Stephen Paddock’s hotel room contained calculations pertaining to the distance and trajectory from his 32nd-floor window to the crowd of concertgoers he targeted below
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
My understanding was he offed himself right after the security guard shooting incident. As in he fired into the crowd, the security guard tried to get in, the suspect shot through the door, then offed himself.Bruenor wrote:OK I get that you aren't going to run headlong into room with someone shooting at you until you are prepared. The comments from the sheriff make it sound like the SWAT team responded and stormed the room in record time to stop the shooter, not ~70 minutes later.
http://fox8.com/2017/10/09/las-vegas-po ... mans-room/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Was the loser still shooting at the crowd after the first group approached his room and got shot at through the door ? or did he off himself at that point ? If so it was the first group that stopped the shooter and not the ones that breached the door. I haven't seen anything that clarifies this point, or I missed it.An improvised team of Las Vegas police officers — two K-9 officers, a detective and a SWAT team member — converged on the Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino on October 1, as Stephen Paddock was firing into a crowd of 22,000 concertgoers. Minutes later, they breached the gunman’s hotel room door.
It was specialized training that allowed them to act so quickly, Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo told CBS’ 60 Minutes.
“I think they prevented a thousand deaths, and I think it’s important for the American public to understand that,” Lombardo said Sunday.
I love how they keep saying he did that for precision shots. At that range some basic calculations are needed, but I doubt his were far from precision shots. After all, did he have current air temp, wind speed, etc written down?Bruenor wrote:They finally cleared up the 'note' that was left behind. Ballistic drop calculations.
http://fox8.com/2017/10/08/source-las-v ... ing-crowd/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;A handwritten note in Stephen Paddock’s hotel room contained calculations pertaining to the distance and trajectory from his 32nd-floor window to the crowd of concertgoers he targeted below
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
Has anyone come up with a reasonably good estimate of how many rounds were fired from the hotel rooms? Also curious as to if any casings were found in the single room?
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Re: Mass shooting at Mandalay Bay Casino in Vegas
Interesting twist in the timeline
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Previously, police said hero guard Jesus Campos had distracted Paddock from his rampage - being hit in the process - just a minute before police arrived.
Now it's been confirmed that Campos was shot six minutes before Paddock began firing on crowds.
Las Vegas Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said that Jesus Campos had approached the room on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay hotel not because of gunfire, but because of an open-door alarm that had gone off nearby.
Paddock then apparently saw him on the video cameras he'd rigged up in the hall and opened fire on him. That occurred at 9:59pm. Lombardo said last week that Paddock fired more than 200 rounds in that encounter.
Campos 'immediately, upon being injured, notified security of his situation,' Lombardo said.
Paddock then turned his gun on the 22,000 revelers at the Route 91 Harvest country music festival five minutes later, per the original timeline of 10:05pm, Lombardo said.
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"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
- Thomas Paine
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."
- Thomas Jefferson
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
- Thomas Paine
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."
- Thomas Jefferson