Metro Parks Ranger Out of Line

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deanimator
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Re: Metro Parks Ranger Out of Line

Post by deanimator »

DontTreadOnMe wrote:Even if he was completely unauthorized, if a peace officer is attacked don't expect his higher-ups to quickly say "he was in the wrong".
Don't expect them to say "he was in the wrong" if he's NOT attacked, and there's incontrovertible evidence that "he was in the wrong".

The wagons usually get circled, and the ones doing the circling never care over whom they roll in the process.

There's far more animosity for an innocent victim who's wronged by the police, than there EVER is for a criminal, unless he actually kills a cop.
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Re: Metro Parks Ranger Out of Line

Post by ashtabula »

I was attempting to find the jurisdiction limits of a Summit Park Ranger and found this in their rules. Anyone ever open carry in their parks?

SECTION 6. WEAPONS, FIREARMS AND FIREWORKS 6. Firearms: Only Park Rangers, other certified peace officers of Metro Parks, Serving Summit County, or other persons authorized by the Ohio Revised Code may carry firearms, as defined by section 2923. of the Ohio Revised Code, within the Park. No person except duly authorized Metro Parks employees, law enforcement officers, or persons engaged in hunting in accordance with Section 4. of these Rules, shall discharge or otherwise use a firearm of any description within the Park without a permit. Persons possessing a valid license issued in accordance with the Ohio Revised Code may carry a concealed firearm within the Park except inside any government building located in the Park, and subject to any other restrictions imposed by law
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Re: Metro Parks Ranger Out of Line

Post by drc »

Just one more reason to hope that Kasich (he probably won't) or someone attempts to bust the unions again. If it keeps up at this pace, it won't be too hard. All that is needed is a couple more elderly people to be the poster elders.
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Re: Metro Parks Ranger Out of Line

Post by Brian D. »

ashtabula wrote:I was attempting to find the jurisdiction limits of a Summit Park Ranger and found this in their rules. Anyone ever open carry in their parks?

SECTION 6. WEAPONS, FIREARMS AND FIREWORKS 6. Firearms: Only Park Rangers, other certified peace officers of Metro Parks, Serving Summit County, or other persons authorized by the Ohio Revised Code may carry firearms, as defined by section 2923. of the Ohio Revised Code, within the Park. No person except duly authorized Metro Parks employees, law enforcement officers, or persons engaged in hunting in accordance with Section 4. of these Rules, shall discharge or otherwise use a firearm of any description within the Park without a permit. Persons possessing a valid license issued in accordance with the Ohio Revised Code may carry a concealed firearm within the Park except inside any government building located in the Park, and subject to any other restrictions imposed by law
Just another agency that hasn't seen fit to bring their regulations into compliance with current state laws and the Ohio Constitution.
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Re: Metro Parks Ranger Out of Line

Post by Cosmos »

Brian D. wrote:
ashtabula wrote:I was attempting to find the jurisdiction limits of a Summit Park Ranger and found this in their rules. Anyone ever open carry in their parks?

SECTION 6. WEAPONS, FIREARMS AND FIREWORKS 6. Firearms: Only Park Rangers, other certified peace officers of Metro Parks, Serving Summit County, or other persons authorized by the Ohio Revised Code may carry firearms, as defined by section 2923. of the Ohio Revised Code, within the Park. No person except duly authorized Metro Parks employees, law enforcement officers, or persons engaged in hunting in accordance with Section 4. of these Rules, shall discharge or otherwise use a firearm of any description within the Park without a permit. Persons possessing a valid license issued in accordance with the Ohio Revised Code may carry a concealed firearm within the Park except inside any government building located in the Park, and subject to any other restrictions imposed by law
Just another agency that hasn't seen fit to bring their regulations into compliance with current state laws and the Ohio Constitution.
@BrianD I don't see where they are not in compliance given the regulation above. The section does state firearms are allowed by persons authorized by the ORC and then clarifies carry is allowed with a CHL in last sentence.
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Re: Metro Parks Ranger Out of Line

Post by Brian D. »

"..other persons authorized.." reads as very restrictive, especially to those not familiar with Ohio laws. It's analogous to the the Department of Liquor Control signage that states in part "...may be guilty of a felony.."

Municipalities ape this confusing verbiage to discourage lawful carry/possession, and I'm way past convincing that it's done unintentionally.
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Re: Metro Parks Ranger Out of Line

Post by JustaShooter »

Cosmos wrote:
Brian D. wrote:
ashtabula wrote:I was attempting to find the jurisdiction limits of a Summit Park Ranger and found this in their rules. Anyone ever open carry in their parks?

SECTION 6. WEAPONS, FIREARMS AND FIREWORKS 6. Firearms: Only Park Rangers, other certified peace officers of Metro Parks, Serving Summit County, or other persons authorized by the Ohio Revised Code may carry firearms, as defined by section 2923. of the Ohio Revised Code, within the Park. No person except duly authorized Metro Parks employees, law enforcement officers, or persons engaged in hunting in accordance with Section 4. of these Rules, shall discharge or otherwise use a firearm of any description within the Park without a permit. Persons possessing a valid license issued in accordance with the Ohio Revised Code may carry a concealed firearm within the Park except inside any government building located in the Park, and subject to any other restrictions imposed by law
Just another agency that hasn't seen fit to bring their regulations into compliance with current state laws and the Ohio Constitution.
@BrianD I don't see where they are not in compliance given the regulation above. The section does state firearms are allowed by persons authorized by the ORC and then clarifies carry is allowed with a CHL in last sentence.
But, open carry without a license is permitted on public lands, and is not "authorized by the Ohio Revised Code". The way this regulation is written appears to me to restrict possession in violation of ORC 9.68.
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Brian D.
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Re: Metro Parks Ranger Out of Line

Post by Brian D. »

JustaShooter wrote: But, open carry without a license is permitted on public lands, and is not "authorized by the Ohio Revised Code". The way this regulation is written appears to me to restrict possession in violation of ORC 9.68.
Yeah, this trick has been pulled a lot in the past, and will continue to be, until some administrator/legislator pays a heavy fine out of personal funds, or gets thrown into the Graybar Hotel. ORC 9.68 as presently written can't do that. We should all be up to speed on that by now. Got a suggestion to remedy the problem?

I like loud, obnoxious open carry walks in front of "important" people's homes or workplaces, with news cameras running.
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Re: Metro Parks Ranger Out of Line

Post by djthomas »

JustaShooter wrote:But, open carry without a license is permitted on public lands, and is not "authorized by the Ohio Revised Code". The way this regulation is written appears to me to restrict possession in violation of ORC 9.68.
Actually 9.68 does authorize open carry. A law that says you may do something is authorizing you to do that thing.
(A)...Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition.
(C)(1)The possession, transporting, or carrying of firearms, their components, or their ammunition include, but are not limited to, the possession, transporting, or carrying, openly or concealed on a person's person or concealed ready at hand, of firearms, their components, or their ammunition.
Is 9.68 the only thing authorizing open carry? That's a good academic discussion (I would argue no) but not really relevant. Fact is, there is a section of the revised code that explicitly allows one to openly carry. The rules allow "other persons" authorized by the Revised Code to carry firearms. It's not exactly an elegant rule but I really don't see a preemption conflict.
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Re: Metro Parks Ranger Out of Line

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

djthomas wrote:...It's not exactly an elegant rule but I really don't see a preemption conflict.
The question may arise if a park ranger doesn't know or understand the law. :wink:
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Re: Metro Parks Ranger Out of Line

Post by djthomas »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:The question may arise if a park ranger doesn't know or understand the law. :wink:
In that case it really doesn't matter what the law says anyway, does it? As long as they have that "thou shall not offend our rangers" rule in the super secret rule book we're all hosed.
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Re: Metro Parks Ranger Out of Line

Post by DontTreadOnMe »

Update: Charges against the elderly couple have been dropped, the park ranger has been fired and may face charges.
An internal investigation determined Jeff Axner violated park ranger procedures, exceeded his authority and made a series of poor decisions that led to him using excessive force, the park system said.

The park system has turned over its findings to the Summit County Prosecutor’s Office, which will determine whether Axner will face criminal charges, a parks spokesman said.
http://www.cleveland19.com/story/366934 ... ing-at-him" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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deanimator
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Re: Metro Parks Ranger Out of Line

Post by deanimator »

The couple needs to:
  1. Sue whatever legal entity under which the Rangers fall.
  2. Sue the the ex-Ranger, attaching whatever property of his is necessary to satisfy the judgment against him. Stripping Tom Metzger of his property was one of the few good things the Southern Poverty Law Center has ever done. A YouTube video of the Sheriff hauling away the ex-Ranger's bass boat, golf clubs, etc., would be an excellent lesson for the others. As the French say, "par encourager les autres".
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