girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for candy

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girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for candy

Postby M-Quigley » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:02 am

http://www.whio.com/news/national/girl- ... zHqRiHwVJ/

:( If someone is going to purse or off body carry, proper precautions should be taken around children.
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Re: girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for can

Postby qmti » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:08 pm

"Off body carry" means "No control". NRA does a poor job of offering off body garments. They should stop pushing them for women.
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Re: girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for can

Postby JustaShooter » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:06 pm

qmti wrote:"Off body carry" means "No control". NRA does a poor job of offering off body garments. They should stop pushing them for women.

Agreed. I do my best to steer both men and women away from off-body carry in my classes.

I wonder what NRA Carry Guard training says about off-body carry? Anyone know?
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Re: girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for can

Postby M-Quigley » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:34 pm

I'm not a fan of off body carry, although I've done it temporarily on occasion (not a purse) When I did though I either had the container or coat in my hands or very close by, and no way could children get to it (or adults either) before I could. Although I don't recommend purse carry, the fact is that it is probably the most popular type of carry for most women. Saying don't do it isn't going to stop it, people will probably either continue to purse carry anyway, or just not carry at all.

I think complacency is as big a factor as the type of carry. A quote from the Miami Herald link

The incident happened Sept. 14 at the North Tampa home of Michael and Christie Zoller, who are Yanelly's grandparents.


If even the woman carries away from home in a purse, the purse should always be under her direct control and use common sense (not like that other woman who put her kid in the shopping cart and then put the purse next to the kid :roll: ) Even if the grandmother felt she had to purse carry when out, she could've removed the gun from the purse and put it somewhere else when she got home. (preferably somewhere at least somewhat secure from other people.)
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Re: girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for can

Postby Mustang380gal » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:09 pm

qmti wrote:"Off body carry" means "No control". NRA does a poor job of offering off body garments. They should stop pushing them for women.

Women have clothing issues that are different from men. However, if we off body carry, then it is important to research carry bags that keep guns secure.

I like Roma leather. It has a built in lock. Gun totin' Mama has a zipper compartment that does not lock. Their purses are cuter, but I stick to Roma. Roma are harder to find in stores.

Carrying a .45 with extra mags is more than some purses can take, though. I have broken handles that way.

Very sad Granny didn't lock her purse.
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Re: girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for can

Postby curmudgeon3 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:29 pm

In the article the police reported Nellie "pulled the trigger" but didn't say if she also disengaged the safety .... too bad.
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Re: girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for can

Postby M-Quigley » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:02 pm

Mustang380gal wrote:
qmti wrote:"Off body carry" means "No control". NRA does a poor job of offering off body garments. They should stop pushing them for women.

Women have clothing issues that are different from men. However, if we off body carry, then it is important to research carry bags that keep guns secure.

I like Roma leather. It has a built in lock. Gun totin' Mama has a zipper compartment that does not lock. Their purses are cuter, but I stick to Roma. Roma are harder to find in stores.

Carrying a .45 with extra mags is more than some purses can take, though. I have broken handles that way.

Very sad Granny didn't lock her purse.


I know someone with a purse that carries the handgun in a holster in a side compartment, accessible from the side, not the top, opening held closed with velcro. Then you have the rest of the purse which is accessible from the top opening. The advantage is that the gun is not mixed in with other items, such as candy. Also if a kid happens to get into the top of the purse, the kid won't see or be able to handle the gun. If the purse owner gets something out of the top of the purse in front of someone, no gun is visible. It's not secure like a locked purse, but might reduce the chance of a child finding the gun, at least right away. It would probably be more of a delaying situation though. She only puts the gun in the purse when out, not when at home. Although this purse is faster for the adult to get to the gun if needed than a locked purse, a locked purse is better in limiting access to kids. particularly if the owner is going to leave the gun in the purse full time.
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Re: girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for can

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:11 pm

curmudgeon3 wrote:In the article the police reported Nellie "pulled the trigger" but didn't say if she also disengaged the safety .... too bad.

What makes you think the gun had one?
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Re: girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for can

Postby M-Quigley » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:23 pm

curmudgeon3 wrote:In the article the police reported Nellie "pulled the trigger" but didn't say if she also disengaged the safety .... too bad.


I missed reading what kind of gun it was. Did it even have a safety? (by safety, I don't mean a trigger blade safety)

I've got safeties on my handguns, but they might only be a short delay if a child got a hold of them. I've heard some people say they think double action revolvers or DA semi autos might prevent young kids from pulling the trigger, but I wouldn't want to bet my life or theirs on that. I think the best idea regardless of the type of handgun is to prevent unauthorized people from getting a hold of them, whether children or adults.
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Re: girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for can

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:08 pm

M-Quigley wrote: I've heard some people say they think double action revolvers or DA semi autos might prevent young kids from pulling the trigger, but I wouldn't want to bet my life or theirs on that.

Good instincts. Gun people make the mistake of thinking children will attempt to fire the gun "correctly", as in, with a firm grip from behind and a single finger on the trigger. That's often not the case. Children aren't trying to establish a proper shooting grip, they're just being curious. They may use 2 fingers on the trigger, their thumb(s), hold the gun backwards, or even from the side.

A 1995 study by the Pediatric Practice Research Group found that
Twenty-five percent of 3- to 4-year-olds, 70% of 5- to 6-year-olds, and 90% of 7- to 8-year-olds have a two-finger trigger-pull strength of at least 10 lb
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Re: girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for can

Postby Mustang380gal » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:02 am

M-Quigley wrote:
I know someone with a purse that carries the handgun in a holster in a side compartment, accessible from the side, not the top, opening held closed with velcro. Then you have the rest of the purse which is accessible from the top opening. The advantage is that the gun is not mixed in with other items, such as candy. Also if a kid happens to get into the top of the purse, the kid won't see or be able to handle the gun. If the purse owner gets something out of the top of the purse in front of someone, no gun is visible. It's not secure like a locked purse, but might reduce the chance of a child finding the gun, at least right away. It would probably be more of a delaying situation though. She only puts the gun in the purse when out, not when at home. Although this purse is faster for the adult to get to the gun if needed than a locked purse, a locked purse is better in limiting access to kids. particularly if the owner is going to leave the gun in the purse full time.


I have a velcro sided purse for carry, but I don't like it. Part of the problem is that I cannot lock it if I am not directly attending to it. The other part is that I don't want to have to make the velcro rip sound if I want to draw quietly.

My carry purses all have the separate holster compartment. They are locked when I am not using them, and I unlock them when I leave the house. They stay on my shoulder cross body except when I am driving, then they are next to me.
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Re: girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for can

Postby WY_Not » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:04 am

Or at least maintain situational awareness and control of her purse.

Mustang380gal wrote:Very sad Granny didn't lock her purse.
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Re: girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for can

Postby Cloudwraith » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:30 am

I was taught at an early age that a woman's purse was OFF LIMITS. To this day, I won't get into my wife's purse, even if she asks me. I just bring her the purse. There are things I don't want to know about that live in those things.

Seriously though, a lot of opportunity to learn here. Teach kids to respect other's property, maintain awareness of your firearm no matter where it is, try to avoid off body carry if possible, teach gun safety at an early age, etc...
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Re: girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for can

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:27 am

Cloudwraith wrote:Teach kids to respect other's property

This sounds like you're blaming the child for going into her grandma's purse. While you don't go into a woman's purse, it's not at all uncommon for children (esp. little girls) to be allowed into a family member's purse. I don't think there's enough information to place the blame on anyone except grandma.
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Re: girl dies after reaching into grandmothers purse for can

Postby Cloudwraith » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:23 pm

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Cloudwraith wrote:Teach kids to respect other's property

This sounds like you're blaming the child for going into her grandma's purse. While you don't go into a woman's purse, it's not at all uncommon for children (esp. little girls) to be allowed into a family member's purse. I don't think there's enough information to place the blame on anyone except grandma.


I'm not placing blame anywhere, I wasn't there. What I AM saying, is, I doubt the Grandmother told the child to get into her purse knowing her firearm was in it. Kids are curious, which is why we set boundaries and teach them. Don't stick items in an outlet, don't touch the stove, don't swim in a pool alone, ad nauseum. Teaching kids boundaries and respect is the job of the parent/guardian. If the child is never taught they shouldn't go into places where firearms may be stored then unfortunate things like this can happen.

Much like the four rules of the firearm, where if even one of them is followed tragedy can be avoided, if any of the above failures hadn't happened (No safety, off body carry, loose in a purse, child not taught to avoid places that could hurt them, grandmother not aware of her firearm) the outcome may have been different.

As with most of these posted stories,this is an opportunity to learn from others' mistakes and adapt one's personal behaviors, not to judge and place blame.
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