Kasich invites DREAMers to Ohio

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Kasich invites DREAMers to Ohio

Postby bignflnut » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:55 am

Ohio Governor John Kasich (R) urged DACA recipients and other immigrants on Wednesday to come to Ohio, telling CBS This Morning that the so-called DREAMers should go to his state if they “want to go somewhere and live.”

“We’re putting kids, young people in jeopardy, this is not the America that we all love, this is a melting pot,” Kasich said. “If the DREAMers want to go somewhere and live, come to Ohio, we want all the immigrants to come to Ohio, we know how much immigrants contribute.”


Having a State's governor invite people to the state who have already run afoul of the law, demonstrating contempt for the enforcement of laws against a certain group of people (see Identity Politics), emboldens the preferred group to continue breaking laws. So you have an influx of lawbreakers who have a lesser disincentive to follow the law (to put it charitably). Can anyone see how this impacts those who advocate for self-defense? The law abiding citizens, who value their lives enough to obtain effective tools and training, may feel threatened when the Chief Law Enforcement official in the land encourages the lawless (who may have been recently displaced by a hurricane or wildfire) to resettle in their land.

Thus, this news story is germane to RKBA/2A/self-defense...especially as we continue to accept this concept that Rights / the Law can be applied differently in various settings.
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Re: Kasich invites DREAMers to Ohio

Postby WY_Not » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:35 am

As Bugs would say, "What a maroon."
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Re: Kasich invites DREAMers to Ohio

Postby djthomas » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:55 am

As a group I, like many Americans, am sympathetic to the Dreamers. They did not choose to come here, they were brought here at an age when they could not consent. They did not willfully break our laws. I do not lump them in with their parents and other adults who willingly came in violating our laws.

Having said that, I am a firm believer in the constitutional process, whether that's laws about immigration or self defense. The status of these people is simply not a matter for the president to decide. The fact that a past Congress refused to act doesn't mean a "phone and a pen" president can enact his own immigration laws, any more than Texas and Arizona can enact their own.

Congress is absolutely worthless. They have accomplished nothing and have shown that they cannot until a gun is held to their head and the 11th hour is upon them. The president has demanded action on health care reform. Result = Nothing. The president has demanded action on tax reform. Result = Nothing. The president has demanded approval of a number of his nominees. Result = It'll be 2054 before the list is cleared. The president has demanded other immigration reforms. Result = Nothing. Republicans control Congress and national reciprocity and suppressor legalization enjoy strong support, including from the White House. Result = Nothing.

The Dreamer problem isn't new. Congress has been aware of the need to take action for years. With the DACA announcement Trump has called Congress's (and the Republican's specifically) bluff. Do your frickin' job or suffer the political consequences of failing to do so.

I guess the difference between me and opportunists like Kasich and the media is I don't believe that the ends justify the means. At the end of the day we'd probably like to see the same things accomplished, but I want to see the proper processes take place.
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Re: Kasich invites DREAMers to Ohio

Postby M-Quigley » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:25 pm

Well said djthomas. I recall last night seeing Paul Ryan on the TV news, saying Trump shouldn't rescind DACA, he should supposedly give time for Congress to enact something legislatively. He probably thought Ryan actually meant what he said. Sometimes you should be careful what you ask for.
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Re: Kasich invites DREAMers to Ohio

Postby djthomas » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:39 pm

M-Quigley wrote:I recall last night seeing Paul Ryan on the TV news, saying Trump shouldn't rescind DACA, he should supposedly give time for Congress to enact something legislatively. He probably thought Ryan actually meant what he said. Sometimes you should be careful what you ask for.

Trump did just that - he gave them six months. That's 25% of their term. That they've already fiddle farted around for 40% of this term is not the president's problem. And by the way, six months takes them to March of next year. That's about a month or two before they all flee town to go campaign until November.

One thing I've learned working with executive management in the private sector - saying "give us time, we'll fix it..." is unacceptable. You come prepared with a plan and hard dates for key milestones. There's no getting to five months and two weeks and asking for an extension because something unexpected happened. And if you can't or won't commit to a date? Expect one to be assigned to you.

Everyone has been asking for immigration reform among other things since January but so far Congress has produced nothing. So Trump, being the executive leader he is set a date and said go forth and fix it - I'm not covering for you after that.
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Re: Kasich invites DREAMers to Ohio

Postby Mr. Glock » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:10 pm

The amnesty that was passed in the early 1980s was supposed to prevent this sort of issue, we were all told. But, it didn't and here we are now.

Obama implementing DACA was an (illegal) over-reach as an executive action (Obama even said so multiple times prior to doing it, in the end blaming it on Congressional inaction). Trump is correcting that over-reach. Ball into Congress's court, where they could have (and should have) passed a law addressing this issue under Obama but will now be forced to address it. The correct way to look at this is that it is not really about the Dreamers (an emotional and multi-sided issue), it is about restoring the proper path of governance.

If Congress wants to help/hurt/give a pass to the Dreamers, they need to do their job and pass legislation. Which, of late, they certainly don't seem like they have the ability to do, I'd say, anything of substance.
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Re: Kasich invites DREAMers to Ohio

Postby M-Quigley » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:56 pm

It's funny that the news media is hitting Trump hard on eventually ending DACA, yet the Democrats couldn't get immigration reform passed even when they were completely in charge, like when they passed Obamacare. If they had, it wouldn't have been an issue now, yet no one accuses the Democratic party about not caring about the so called dreamers.

A friend of mine made the comment, regarding the legislative branch doing something about the DACA issue. He said, "Yeah, right. One of the Congressmen was complaining on the news back when they got shot at in a ball park about how he couldn't defend himself because his (CCW) license wasn't recognized in DC. Has Congress even talked about that reciprocity issue, much less done anything about it? They couldn't even get anything done for themselves after being shot at, so what's going to make them care about anybody else on some other issue?" I didn't have a good answer for that.
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Re: Kasich invites DREAMers to Ohio

Postby SMMAssociates » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:42 am

My DACA vote is pretty simple. Children under some age (years ago I would have said "12", today, I'm not sure), they're here, they can stay if their parents want 'em. (Gotta put together a way to handle those kids.)

Over 12, ask 'em (presumes ongoing education, employment, etc.), and with some kind of parental approval. Screw up, and you're on the bus/boat/plane.
No more than one "retry".

Parents, generally, the same rules. Prior citizenship carries an advantage :) .

(A presumption is that one or both parents are already citizens, or at least live and work in the U.S., and that at least one parent can stay in the U.S. Joining MS13 or the Taliban count negatively....)

Toss 'em out if they're criminals....

Just IMHO....

Or blame it on GWBush.... :)

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Re: Kasich invites DREAMers to Ohio

Postby M-Quigley » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:46 pm

Well, this doesn't look good, if this carries over to other issues the Dem's want, like gun control, etc.

http://www.whio.com/news/national-govt- ... lNxWJlfOL/

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi predicted on Friday that Democrats will have increased leverage on immigration and other issues, after a debt and disaster aid deal they cut with President Donald Trump passed the House on the strength of Democratic votes.

Pelosi said she makes "no apology" for working across the aisle with a president disdained in her home state of California, arguing that the president now understands Democrats are committed to compromise, "but also to stand our ground."


"If it's depending on Democratic votes, it increases our leverage," Pelosi said in an interview with a small group of reporters. "It gives us a possibility for passing the DREAM Act" as an amendment to spending legislation.
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