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Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:01 am
by M-Quigley
ohiophotog wrote:That being said I don't like that no warning was heard by Andy. There may have been a warning but Andy didn't hear it or disregarded it for whatever reason. He clearly states in an on camera interview that he heard no warning.


Was it windy or storming at the time? The reason I mention this is out where I live, if the air is calm, you can here a normal voice conversation even a few blocks away. If it's windy or stormy however, it's hard to hear someone shouting even from a much shorter distance.

Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:03 am
by bignflnut
Photographer was setting up to record/document/capture storm photos, was my understanding...

Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:23 am
by ohiophotog
He was planning on taking some photos of the storm and the lightning. It's one of his favorite things to do.

He noticed the active traffic stop and decided to photograph that as well.

The body cam footage has been released. There is about 6 minutes worth but I've only found the 3 minutes leading up to the shooting on one news source and the one that includes maybe 15 seconds before all the way to about 2 and a half minutes after including the actual shooting.

http://www.whio.com/news/local/body-camera-released-ohio-news-photographer-shot-deputy/MN3a2BhLeIz2XzRnkSLoKL

I think the deputy should be in some trouble. Didn't properly identify the threat and didn't announce anything before pulling two shots off.

It was not yet raining or not raining much and didn't sound very windy.

Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:43 pm
by DontTreadOnMe
ohiophotog wrote:I think the deputy should be in some trouble. Didn't properly identify the threat and didn't announce anything before pulling two shots off.


:shock: That could have been my father-in-law pulling his cane out of the car, or any of a hundred innocent things.

Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:43 pm
by Bruenor
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
ohiophotog wrote:I think the deputy should be in some trouble. Didn't properly identify the threat and didn't announce anything before pulling two shots off.


:shock: That could have been my father-in-law pulling his cane out of the car, or any of a hundred innocent things.


Recall the guy that was chased down over his assault umbrella ?

Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:25 pm
by ohiophotog
Bruenor wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
ohiophotog wrote:I think the deputy should be in some trouble. Didn't properly identify the threat and didn't announce anything before pulling two shots off.


:shock: That could have been my father-in-law pulling his cane out of the car, or any of a hundred innocent things.


Recall the guy that was chased down over his assault umbrella ?

No actually I don't recall seeing that.

Even if this was a rifle or handgun if he wasn't actually pointing it at the officer or threatening him in some way he should have been kept an eye on but not shot.

Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:30 am
by M-Quigley
I don't know how long this will be up on youtube, but this is the body cam footage, 17 minutes long, seems to be mostly unedited, except for occasional bleeping out of some audio. (and doesn't require flash to view it, unlike most of the news sites) In it, the photographer says "it's my fault" "I'm on bodycam I'll say it, It's my fault" "I don't want you to lose your job" "You didn't mean it", "You thought it was a gun", etc.

Of course the deputy thought it was a gun, that's pretty obvious. As to it being the fault of the photographer however, nothing can really be inferred from the victim's statements, the guy just got shot. Was it reasonable to think that? The photographer wasn't in a position to know what the scene looked like from the deputies location. Even if it was reasonable for the deputy to think it might look like a gun, should "might look like" be enough to just start shooting across a roadway at something or someone when you're not sure?

Also at one point it sounds like another LEO is telling the deputy not to say anything to anybody. That's good advice in general usually after any shooting, LEO or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSJflTR0bnc

Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:42 pm
by M-Quigley
Some people on here sometimes ask what police issues on this forum have to do with CCW. I heard someone today make a connection to citizen concealed carry and this story at least. His (so called) reasoning in response to someone concerned about what happened was that he wasn't worried about a cop mistakenly shooting someone, but "those people going around carrying guns." He said that despite the police getting "hundreds of hours of firearms training", mistakes still happen. But yet someone can just go apply for a license to carry "a loaded gun" with almost no training at all. If "highly trained" (his words) cops still make mistakes, then mere mortals (my words not his :roll: ) can't possibly avoid shooting an innocent person. He also claimed to have heard that "crazy people" can get a license, blind people can get a license, etc. and that concealed carriers aren't properly vetted in the same way that cops are. :roll:

Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:59 pm
by ohiophotog
M-Quigley wrote:Some people on here sometimes ask what police issues on this forum have to do with CCW. I heard someone today make a connection to citizen concealed carry and this story at least. His (so called) reasoning in response to someone concerned about what happened was that he wasn't worried about a cop mistakenly shooting someone, but "those people going around carrying guns." He said that despite the police getting "hundreds of hours of firearms training", mistakes still happen. But yet someone can just go apply for a license to carry "a loaded gun" with almost no training at all. If "highly trained" (his words) cops still make mistakes, then mere mortals (my words not his :roll: ) can't possibly avoid shooting an innocent person. He also claimed to have heard that "crazy people" can get a license, blind people can get a license, etc. and that concealed carriers aren't properly vetted in the same way that cops are. :roll:

While that is obviously an incredibly ignorant statement I do know a legally blind person with a CHL in Ohio. It's not impossible. Primarily because he was not totally blind just legally blind.

Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:42 am
by M-Quigley
ohiophotog wrote:While that is obviously an incredibly ignorant statement I do know a legally blind person with a CHL in Ohio. It's not impossible. Primarily because he was not totally blind just legally blind.


Oh, I understand, I also know someone who meets the legal definition of legally blind. Although he doesn't have a CHL, he is capable of getting one. All of those statements were ignorant and nothing new, I'm heard them for years, even before licensed carry. What was different was his use of this local news story as a specific example of why people who aren't cops shouldn't carry.
I think taking any one specific example and making generalities against other people is usually wrong, no matter who it is or what the issue is.

Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:10 pm
by techguy85
M-Quigley wrote:
ohiophotog wrote:While that is obviously an incredibly ignorant statement I do know a legally blind person with a CHL in Ohio. It's not impossible. Primarily because he was not totally blind just legally blind.


Oh, I understand, I also know someone who meets the legal definition of legally blind. Although he doesn't have a CHL, he is capable of getting one. All of those statements were ignorant and nothing new, I'm heard them for years, even before licensed carry. What was different was his use of this local news story as a specific example of why people who aren't cops shouldn't carry.
I think taking any one specific example and making generalities against other people is usually wrong, no matter who it is or what the issue is.

This legally blind concealed carry holder would hope that anyone, let alone an officer, would evaluate the situation before just blasting away. But hey, what do I know :-)

Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:56 am
by bignflnut
techguy85 wrote:This legally blind concealed carry holder would hope that anyone, let alone an officer, would evaluate the situation before just blasting away. But hey, what do I know :-)


Did you see the one where the cop stun gunned the pregnant lady....

Burton said the officer got out of her car and “charged” toward White. White was saying, “Wait, I’m pregnant,” resisting as the officer grabbed her, Burton said. The officer managed to wrestle White to the ground, Burton and White’s mother said.

The officer also had a stun gun. By all accounts, White was screaming, “Don’t Tase me, I’m pregnant!” Her mom and Burton chimed in, they said. Both women said they also were screaming, “Don’t Tase her, she’s pregnant!”

Burton said the officer “went to tasing that girl all over her body.” Spear said the officer shocked White at least three times in the abdomen and on her leg.

“I’m upset,” Burton said. “That was a situation that escalated that didn’t have to escalate the way it did.” Burton felt the officer should have waited for backup, which was on the way.
Assessing situations and acting accordingly isn't what hits the paper, but you're right, what do we mundanes know.

Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:08 am
by deanimator
Bruenor wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
ohiophotog wrote:I think the deputy should be in some trouble. Didn't properly identify the threat and didn't announce anything before pulling two shots off.


:shock: That could have been my father-in-law pulling his cane out of the car, or any of a hundred innocent things.


Recall the guy that was chased down over his assault umbrella ?

The SAS once killed an Irish guy with a "sawn off shotgun" in a dufflebag.

Turns out the "shotgun" was a table leg he was refinishing...

Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:02 pm
by techguy85
bignflnut wrote:
techguy85 wrote:This legally blind concealed carry holder would hope that anyone, let alone an officer, would evaluate the situation before just blasting away. But hey, what do I know :-)


Did you see the one where the cop stun gunned the pregnant lady....

Burton said the officer got out of her car and “charged” toward White. White was saying, “Wait, I’m pregnant,” resisting as the officer grabbed her, Burton said. The officer managed to wrestle White to the ground, Burton and White’s mother said.

The officer also had a stun gun. By all accounts, White was screaming, “Don’t Tase me, I’m pregnant!” Her mom and Burton chimed in, they said. Both women said they also were screaming, “Don’t Tase her, she’s pregnant!”

Burton said the officer “went to tasing that girl all over her body.” Spear said the officer shocked White at least three times in the abdomen and on her leg.

“I’m upset,” Burton said. “That was a situation that escalated that didn’t have to escalate the way it did.” Burton felt the officer should have waited for backup, which was on the way.
Assessing situations and acting accordingly isn't what hits the paper, but you're right, what do we mundanes know.

SMH... No, I hadn't heard about that one.

Re: Ohio deputy mistakenly shoots news media photographer

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:44 am
by M-Quigley
Good news update: Photographer back on the job. :)

http://www.whio.com/news/local/new-carl ... IhW9lkfVL/

Andy Grimm, the New Carlisle News photographer shot on the job by a deputy last month, was spotted working today at an accident scene.

News Center 7 photographer Jim Noelker this evening caught up with Grimm today when they both responded to a crash in New Carlisle.


Hopefully he's wearing a bright neon vest with the words PRESS or NEWS PHOTOGRAPHER emblazoned on it. :roll: