Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not all
Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators
-
- OFCC Patron Member
- Posts: 19039
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:08 am
- Location: NEO
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
Pointing out the police when they abuse their power is not bashing..it's no different then pointing out bad Congress critter or for that matter anyone in power...I believe it's more emportant to bring out all we can on bad police officers ..the open about it the more these PD will think twice before rehirering one...
As someone mentioned here that there is a law on the books that you can't tell why someone was let go or fired..there should be a exemption for LEO.
As someone mentioned here that there is a law on the books that you can't tell why someone was let go or fired..there should be a exemption for LEO.
Life is full of God given coincidences..
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
Thanks for shopping at Charmin Carmens
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
Thanks for shopping at Charmin Carmens
-
- Volunteer
- Posts: 8135
- Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
- Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
- Contact:
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
While various national and State pro-RKBA groups advocate for new laws to free citizens who wish to carry concealed (a backwards thought process, to be sure), we assume that the laws will be applied equitably and without regard to profession. Can we agree, then, that these issues are germane to the discussion?deanimator wrote:
Is it REALLY a good idea for people with that degree of power over the rest of us to be totally immune from public scrutiny or criticism? Police unions think so.
SD790, does this concept of equality under the law appeal to you?A primary element that has separated the United States of America from virtually every other nation in history is the concept of it being “a nation of laws, not a nation of men.”
“A nation of laws” means that laws, not people, rule. Everyone is to be governed by the same laws, regardless of their station; whether it is the most common American or Members of Congress, high-ranking bureaucrats or the President of the United States; all must be held to the just laws of America. No one is, or can be allowed to be, above the law.
SNIP
The Founders wrote restrictions into the Constitution against bills or laws of attainder, which are laws that do not apply equally to everyone, but target specific persons or groups in their enforcement, and are also known as “bills of pains and penalties.” In the hands of corrupt officials, these laws could be used as a weapon that would give an incumbent politician a major advantage over anyone else.
Can there be a better way for a nation to deal with its citizens than treating all of them equally under the law? About the only people who would disagree with this concept are those who are in a position, or want to be, to abuse the law and use their official positions unfairly, or those who benefit from that abuse.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
-
- Volunteer
- Posts: 8135
- Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
- Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
- Contact:
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
- JediSkipdogg
- Posts: 10257
- Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:03 pm
- Location: Batavia
- Contact:
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
The answer is found in defamation laws. Companies can say whatever they want, there is no law that prevents them from doing so. However, most are worried about defamation lawsuits if they say something that is not factual. If someone is fired for stealing, and they claim they never did it, and the police aren't called to let a court of law look at all the facts, then it is truly a his word against boss's word to determine who did it. Now is the boss calling the employer a thief? Therefore most employers simply choose to remain silent as that is what is taught in many HR classes. The less info you talk about, the less they have a chance to sue you.Mustang380gal wrote:Point conceded. Accountability is a good thing. But lumping good in with the bad is not helpful.deanimator wrote:
Is it REALLY a good idea for people with that degree of power over the rest of us to be totally immune from public scrutiny or criticism? Police unions think so.
A question I have, and probably best answered by an HR person is: could Mentor have told Euclid about the guy's past, or could they only give dates of service? I remember hearing that details about a personnel file were not supposed to be disclosed, and if they are, then the city opens itself up to a suit.
Now, in this case, it's slightly different. Sure, Mentor isn't going to tell Euclid why, but Euclid could simply public records request the employees entire personnel jacket. If they see discipline, they can then further ask for the entire internal affairs investigation. Government employees have less protection in that aspect.
Carrying Concealed Handguns - Signage Answers
Ohio Concealed Carry Classes in S/W Ohio
http://www.ProShootersTraining.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
Ohio Concealed Carry Classes in S/W Ohio
http://www.ProShootersTraining.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
-
- Posts: 4791
- Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:06 pm
- Location: Western Ohio
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
Actually the links have some positive aspects. I give kudos to the Mentor PD for doing the right thing, in regards to firing the officer. I've heard of other LEO from other depts. in the past getting lessor penalties for doing the same thing.Mustang380gal wrote:Point conceded. Accountability is a good thing. But lumping good in with the bad is not helpful.deanimator wrote:
Is it REALLY a good idea for people with that degree of power over the rest of us to be totally immune from public scrutiny or criticism? Police unions think so.
That's a very good question, and this issue to me is as interesting or more than just the excessive force complaint by itself.Mustang380gal wrote:A question I have, and probably best answered by an HR person is: could Mentor have told Euclid about the guy's past, or could they only give dates of service? I remember hearing that details about a personnel file were not supposed to be disclosed, and if they are, then the city opens itself up to a suit.
One of the security companies I once worked for hired a guy to be a security guard for a large factory. One day he allegedly discovered a dumpster fire, reported it, the local FD put it out, and the guy got kudos for it. When something similar happened, people started to suspect that he was starting the fires, in an attempt to get positive attention. He was eventually caught. A later investigation revealed that he previously had been a fire fighter in another town some 50 miles away, and had allegedly been doing the same thing there. Rather than charge him and fire him, they allegedly allowed him to resign.
(one excuse or theory I heard mentioned was that the FD didn't want the bad publicity, but that's not the official position of the FD)
None of this was allegedly mentioned to the security company when they hired the guy. (probably for the reasons mentioned by JediSkipdogg)
-
- Posts: 16237
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
- Location: SW Ohio
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
I caught bosses and coworkers blabbing about things that put them WAY over the line with HIPAA laws several times through the years. And not because I followed them around or anything like it. Drop in the restaurant across the street from City Hall for lunch, take a seat where a councilperson, the mayor and the fire chief are chatting and they don't see you, game on. Same with personnel matters on a few occasions. A certain watering hole at night was the worst, in vino veritas and all that.Mustang380gal wrote:A question I have, and probably best answered by an HR person is: could Mentor have told Euclid about the guy's past, or could they only give dates of service? I remember hearing that details about a personnel file were not supposed to be disclosed, and if they are, then the city opens itself up to a suit.
Mentor and Euclid are almost next door neighbors. No way did some of the police and their bosses not know and socialize with each other. There could even be members of the same family working in the two cities.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
- Atilla
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:18 am
- Location: Euclid
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
Mentor did not fire him, he resigned ( or get fired). He is the former Mentor police chiefs son.
Euclid should have done a more thorough vetting, but thought they could save a little on a lateral hire. Now it will cost us seven figures.
Euclid should have done a more thorough vetting, but thought they could save a little on a lateral hire. Now it will cost us seven figures.
C'mon! We're all going to die, die standing up!
- TJW815
- Posts: 2476
- Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:13 pm
- Location: Warren County
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
M-Quigley wrote:So if a cop is in the news, accused of wrongdoing, that's considered cop bashing? If a concealed carry holder or home owner is arrested related to an alleged defensive gun use, and the story is posted here, is that bashing all legal gun owners?
I fully support the majority of honest law abiding cops who follow the rules and do their job to the best of their abilities. If one is accused of wrongdoing, they should have the same rights as anyone else accused of wrongdoing. My support is not blind however.
So what is your intent and/reason for posting it in a forum for an organization supposedly dedicated to furthering 2nd Amendment rights for Ohio citizens?
I see it as either an attempt to cast negative light on the police or you are grabbing for attention.
Please continue to push the negative media narrative...
-
- Volunteer
- Posts: 8135
- Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
- Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
- Contact:
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
Riddle me this: What is the point of passing pro-RKBA laws if the groups tasked with enforcing those laws don't adhere to the laws?TJW815 wrote:So what is your intent and/reason for posting it in a forum for an organization supposedly dedicated to furthering 2nd Amendment rights for Ohio citizens?
Good, keep saying that it's "fake news", stay in that mental "conservative vs liberal" ghetto (just like the media wants you to)...and see how that works out.TJW815 wrote:I see it as either an attempt to cast negative light on the police or you are grabbing for attention.
Please continue to push the negative media narrative...
Last edited by bignflnut on Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
-
- Volunteer
- Posts: 8135
- Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
- Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
- Contact:
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
Depends on how many videos and victims surface....Atilla wrote: Euclid should have done a more thorough vetting, but thought they could save a little on a lateral hire. Now it will cost us seven figures.
The can is slowly emptying...might get to 8 figures...
County and federal authorities are investigating potential civil rights abuses by a Euclid police officer, authorities told WKYC Channel 3 News.
The development Wednesday comes as new video surfaced showing embattled Euclid Patrolman Michael Amiott forcing a handcuffed teenaged girl to the ground during a confrontation at a public library.
The April incident marks at least the third time this year that Amiott forcibly arrested a black suspect.
SNIP
He was, however, about to be fired by the suburban department for giving conflicting statements to supervisors about a traffic stop he initiated.
Instead of being terminated, Amiott, whose uncle Richard Amiott once served as Mentor’s police chief, was permitted to resign.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
- deanimator
- Posts: 7863
- Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:34 pm
- Location: Rocky River
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
So what is your intent and reason for not wanting it posted in the news forum?TJW815 wrote:So what is your intent and/reason for posting it in a forum for an organization supposedly dedicated to furthering 2nd Amendment rights for Ohio citizens?
Is it not news or is it not news that you want people to know about?
Who cast the greater negative light on the police, the barmaid or the cop who tried to stomp her to death and the other cops who tried to intimidate her into dropping the matter?TJW815 wrote:I see it as either an attempt to cast negative light on the police or you are grabbing for attention.
From the murder of Kathryn Johnston to the attempted murders of the paper delivery women and the surfer, nobody creates a more negative impression of police than police themselves.
"Cop hater!" is just the retarded little brother of "Racist!". Nobody's buying the BS anymore.
Life comes at you fast. Be prepared to shoot it in the head when it does.
-
- OFCC Patron Member
- Posts: 19039
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:08 am
- Location: NEO
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
You young pups should settle down a bit..I think we are on the same side.....we don't hate cops....we only hate the bad ones....
Life is full of God given coincidences..
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
Thanks for shopping at Charmin Carmens
A MEMBER OF OFCC SINCE 2004...
Thanks for shopping at Charmin Carmens
- TJW815
- Posts: 2476
- Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:13 pm
- Location: Warren County
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
Last I checked a few cops here and there doesnt represent the vast majority. Good try though.bignflnut wrote:Riddle me this: What is the point of passing pro-RKBA laws if the groups tasked with enforcing those laws don't adhere to the laws?TJW815 wrote:So what is your intent and/reason for posting it in a forum for an organization supposedly dedicated to furthering 2nd Amendment rights for Ohio citizens?
Good, keep saying that it's "fake news", stay in that mental "conservative vs liberal" ghetto (just like the media wants you to)...and see how that works out.TJW815 wrote:I see it as either an attempt to cast negative light on the police or you are grabbing for attention.
Please continue to push the negative media narrative...
Not once did I say fake news. I said negative media narrative. I'm sorry if those words are overly difficult for you to understand. What it means is that they lime to report the bad news only. It's a PR stunt.
- TJW815
- Posts: 2476
- Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:13 pm
- Location: Warren County
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
deanimator wrote:So what is your intent and reason for not wanting it posted in the news forum?TJW815 wrote:So what is your intent and/reason for posting it in a forum for an organization supposedly dedicated to furthering 2nd Amendment rights for Ohio citizens?
Is it not news or is it not news that you want people to know about?
Who cast the greater negative light on the police, the barmaid or the cop who tried to stomp her to death and the other cops who tried to intimidate her into dropping the matter?TJW815 wrote:I see it as either an attempt to cast negative light on the police or you are grabbing for attention.
From the murder of Kathryn Johnston to the attempted murders of the paper delivery women and the surfer, nobody creates a more negative impression of police than police themselves.
"Cop hater!" is just the retarded little brother of "Racist!". Nobody's buying the BS anymore.
To your first, what does it do to further RKBA?
To your last, again, what does it have to do with RKBA?
All some of you do is post negative news. Lighten up, you'll live a better life.
-
- Volunteer
- Posts: 8135
- Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:14 pm
- Location: Under Naybob Tinfoil Bridge
- Contact:
Re: Euclid cop suspended for excessive force, and that's not
I'm your huckleberry.TJW815 wrote:To your first, what does it do to further RKBA?
To your last, again, what does it have to do with RKBA?
All some of you do is post negative news. Lighten up, you'll live a better life.
It increases respect for justice. You remember justice, don't you? Where the law-breakers have their Rights temporarily or permanently revoked depending on the crime? Where we all agree that regardless of our station, none of us is above the law. We're a nation of laws, not men, remember?
You remember Rights, don't you? Where people can live free of government intrusion, because there are LAWS that we all respect restraining government from encroaching on these areas of life.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798