Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

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Brian D.
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

Post by Brian D. »

glocksmith wrote:
M-Quigley wrote: I heard Bill Cunningham say that the Butler county sheriff Richard K. Jones said that if Tensing was acquitted, he would hire him.
If that's true, and it really happens...then it'll be a case of glocksmith used to think highly of Sheriff Jones.
I heard the conversion between Cunningham and Jones. The sheriff only stated hiring Tensing was something he'd "consider" if it came up. Long way from a job offer.
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

Post by M-Quigley »

Brian D. wrote:
glocksmith wrote:
M-Quigley wrote: I heard Bill Cunningham say that the Butler county sheriff Richard K. Jones said that if Tensing was acquitted, he would hire him.
If that's true, and it really happens...then it'll be a case of glocksmith used to think highly of Sheriff Jones.
I heard the conversion between Cunningham and Jones. The sheriff only stated hiring Tensing was something he'd "consider" if it came up. Long way from a job offer.
Not in Cunningham's mind. :roll: I suspected it was something like this. Thanks for clarifying this.
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

Post by BEAR! »

I'm surprised, I thought for sure that Black Lies Murder would start riots in Cincinnati after the verdict.
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

Post by Brian D. »

BEAR! wrote:I'm surprised, I thought for sure that Black Lies Murder would start riots in Cincinnati after the verdict.
It's different for people's feelings to hear "mistrial, deadlocked jury" than the finality of "not guilty, Officer Tensing is free to go".
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

Post by bignflnut »

Brian D. wrote:
BEAR! wrote:I'm surprised, I thought for sure that Black Lies Murder would start riots in Cincinnati after the verdict.
It's different for people's feelings to hear "mistrial, deadlocked jury" than the finality of "not guilty, Officer Tensing is free to go".
Respectfully, I think the issue/difference/disagreement in society is to what degree justice is blind. People may feel that the scales are tipped towards innocence for some and conviction for others. This is not positive for society as some may be encouraged to take justice into their own hands, which should be a proper role for government.

So when people feel as though justice isn't being blindly and objectively dispensed (justifiably or not), the threat level seems to rise. One can see a swift and violent devolution of civility in public discourse being followed by economic uncertainty, etc.
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

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I've got problems with two things:
1- If I was a police chief, I would immediately fire any officer who reached his hand into an occupied vehicle that had its motor running. Too many officers have received serious injuries from being dragged by cars. My @#$% brother tried to do that when he was a store manager and tried to shut off the motor of a shoplifter he chased out into the lot. He was dragged 25-30 feet down the street before fell away. He had to three surgeries on his knee and it never was right after that.

2- I'm pro LE, but think this law that gives university police officers authority when immediately off campus causes cowboy stuff like this. I mean come on, stopping for no front plate when several blocks off campus? Only OSP & traffic units enforce front plates around here. I think he had a bad case of the Wyatt Earp Syndrome, hoping to catch someone holding so he could get a "real" arrest. I'm pretty sure the law was passed to make sure students were safe leaving campus at night, not enforce a stupid front plate law...
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

Post by Brian D. »

There are some angles to this situation that you'd almost have to be a longtime local to grasp as part of the big picture. Way too involved for me to type out. Here are a few items you might research:

1) The fatal shooting of Timothy Thomas by Cincinnati police officer Steve Roach in April of 2001.

2) The riots which followed a few days later.

3) The trial and eventual acquittal of Officer Roach.

4) The federal follow up of the above which forced many changes in how the CPD did their job for several years afterwards.

5) The agreement that greenlighted the UCPD to patrol, etc. well away from campus, without the fed-imposed limitations that CPD was still operating under. The U of C president who signed off on that resigned and moved to greener pastures rather suddenly right after Tensing shot Samuel Debose. Not hardly a coincidence, in my book.
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

Post by JediSkipdogg »

dustymedic wrote:I've got problems with two things:
1- If I was a police chief, I would immediately fire any officer who reached his hand into an occupied vehicle that had its motor running. Too many officers have received serious injuries from being dragged by cars. My @#$% brother tried to do that when he was a store manager and tried to shut off the motor of a shoplifter he chased out into the lot. He was dragged 25-30 feet down the street before fell away. He had to three surgeries on his knee and it never was right after that.
It's a gamble, but there have been many cases where officers have successfully grabbed the keys out of the ignition. And taking the stance of firing anyone for just that action, I hope you have a lot of money for all the legal fees and backpay those officers would get when they win their termination lawsuit. Remember, most police in Ohio are unionized, so not at-will employees and therefore you need a darn good reason to suspend or terminate.
dustymedic wrote:2- I'm pro LE, but think this law that gives university police officers authority when immediately off campus causes cowboy stuff like this. I mean come on, stopping for no front plate when several blocks off campus? Only OSP & traffic units enforce front plates around here. I think he had a bad case of the Wyatt Earp Syndrome, hoping to catch someone holding so he could get a "real" arrest. I'm pretty sure the law was passed to make sure students were safe leaving campus at night, not enforce a stupid front plate law...
No front plate is enforced pretty heavily down here (Southwest Ohio.) It is a pretty easy probable cause stop that lets you start a conversation with a shady driver. I'm not sure what law you are talking about in your last sentence, but if you are talking about the agreement between UCPD and CPD, it came about after all of the armed robberies that were affecting UC students throughout all hours of the day and night. You had one side of the street was UCPD jurisdiction and the other side was CPD. Robberies started on one side till UCPD cracked down then they start occurring on the other side of the street where CPD didn't really do much because they were already too overloaded to effectively patrol. So CPD and UCPD made an agreement to let UCPD cover a few blocks off of campus and look for suspicious activity. It was effective for the robberies as shortly after the agreement, they took a huge downturn in the area.
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

Post by glocksmith »

Brian D. wrote:There are some angles to this situation that you'd almost have to be a longtime local to grasp as part of the big picture. Way too involved for me to type out. Here are a few items you might research:
1) The fatal shooting of Timothy Thomas by Cincinnati police officer Steve Roach in April of 2001.
2) The riots which followed a few days later.
3) The trial and eventual acquittal of Officer Roach.
4) The federal follow up of the above which forced many changes in how the CPD did their job for several years afterwards.
5) The agreement that greenlighted the UCPD to patrol, etc. well away from campus, without the fed-imposed limitations that CPD was still operating under. The U of C president who signed off on that resigned and moved to greener pastures rather suddenly right after Tensing shot Samuel Debose. Not hardly a coincidence, in my book.
That's definitely a sequence of events leading up to the present fiasco. With regard to #4, police organizations are very insular, and highly resistant to change...especially from external influences. CPD is no exception.I mean, looking at the list above, it took quite a lot of things over a very long time to inspire change in CPD. One of the things which has always irked me in the past is CPD's continual reliance on the old argument of "the officer was just acting according to his/her training." This never denies any wrongdoing...it just exonerates the individual officer and shifts the blame to intangibles like out-of-date departmental policies. Its not a whole lot different than the Nazi officials "I was just following orders" excuse.
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

Post by M-Quigley »

Now the sister of Debose is accusing the trial judge of racism, for not allowing the T shirt in as evidence, even though it was allowed in during the first trial, which also ended in a hung jury.

http://local12.com/news/local/will-ray- ... be-retried" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
An emotional Allen began by reading a written statement about her brother. She then asked for the continued pursuit of charges.

Later, Allen criticized Judge Leslie Ghiz. Allen called Judge Ghiz the second attorney in the courtroom for Ray Tensing saying, "I wondered if she was wearing a Confederate flag under those robes."

"I felt like he had his lawyer and he had the Judge," Allen said. "Because that Judge never valued Sam."

Her criticism stems in part from Ghiz's decision to not allow a black t-shirt with a Confederate flag on it that Tensing was wearing on the day of the shooting to be admissible as evidence into the trial.

"That shirt meant more to him than Sam's life, clearly. And the Judge should have allowed that shirt in," Allen said.
After the mistrial was declared, the reporting was a decision on possible retrying was supposed to come out on friday,
The prosecutors office said it will not make a decision until the week of July, 10.
I guess this coming weekend's forecast wasn't hot and dry enough. :roll:
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

Post by glocksmith »

They're not helping their cause one bit by introducing racism and Confederate flag imagery. They have (or had?) the sympathy of quite a few White folks...myself included...but there is no greater turn-off than when Black people fall back on the tired old tactic of blaming everything on racism when all else fails.

And, as for Deters and our courts, I don't think much of them either. I've maintained all along that the way they have conducted themselves....especially the delays...have more to do with "buying time" and avoiding the inevitable protests which will eventually (and justifiably) turn violent.
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

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glocksmith wrote:They're not helping their cause one bit by introducing racism and Confederate flag imagery. They have (or had?) the sympathy of quite a few White folks...myself included...but there is no greater turn-off than when Black people fall back on the tired old tactic of blaming everything on racism when all else fails.

And, as for Deters and our courts, I don't think much of them either. I've maintained all along that the way they have conducted themselves....especially the delays...have more to do with "buying time" and avoiding the inevitable protests which will eventually (and justifiably) turn violent.
There is no justification for violence. The man had his (many) days in court, and was not convicted. That is how the law works. Some you win, some you don't.
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

Post by glocksmith »

Mustang380gal wrote:There is no justification for violence. The man had his (many) days in court, and was not convicted. That is how the law works. Some you win, some you don't.
History proves you wrong. As for the Tensing situation....give it time. We shall see what the ultimate outcome is.
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

Post by Mustang380gal »

glocksmith wrote:
Mustang380gal wrote:There is no justification for violence. The man had his (many) days in court, and was not convicted. That is how the law works. Some you win, some you don't.
History proves you wrong. As for the Tensing situation....give it time. We shall see what the ultimate outcome is.
No, it does not.

Whose stuff is going to be broken? Did the people whose stores are going to be looted and burned have anything to do with the case? Who is going to be hurt or killed? Did they have anything to do with it? Should they suffer loss because of this? Of course not!!

Reginald Denny had nothing to do with the idiot on PCP in LA, but his life was forever ruined.

In this case, violence would be utterly and completely wrong.
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Re: Another Mistrial In Tensing Case

Post by M-Quigley »

Mustang380gal wrote: No, it does not.

Whose stuff is going to be broken? Did the people whose stores are going to be looted and burned have anything to do with the case? Who is going to be hurt or killed? Did they have anything to do with it? Should they suffer loss because of this? Of course not!!

Reginald Denny had nothing to do with the idiot on PCP in LA, but his life was forever ruined.

In this case, violence would be utterly and completely wrong.
While I agree with your analogy about rioting, there are other kinds of violence that could occur, like the sniper in Dallas Texas for example. :(

I've got a question for the legal minds. What does it take for a defense attorney to get a decision to dismiss charges based on the 2 mistrials?

http://www.wlwt.com/article/ray-tensing ... s/10232136" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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