OFCC member in the news r/t proposed changes in the law
Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators
- jgarvas
- OFCC Director
- Posts: 3163
- Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:35 pm
- Location: Northern Summit County
- Contact:
Re: OFCC member in the news r/t proposed changes in the law
I don't post often in the forums any more by design and personal choice, but I wanted to share a hidden link that nobody else within OFCC likely knew about.
I'm not going to delve into the whole he said / she said stuff earlier in this thread but I wanted to post a link for those of you who wonder what we did at proponent testimony for HB142. In addition to the excellent testimony offered by others we brought visual evidence of how active notification can go wrong when the cop keeps interrupting you, not listening to the words coming out of your mouth, and focuses on just accusing you of lying -- and you're so scatter brained you can't finish saying that you're licensed. (but clearly make attempts to do so)
I took our copy of the Harless traffic stop and aggressively edited out all of the nonsense periods and focused on JUST the notification aspects. This video was played for the whole committee with pauses inserted into the video for me to narrate / elaborate and point out things such as "LOOK THIS IS HIS LICENSE IN HIS HAND"
The running clock at the bottom is to show how much actual real time transpired. Between Officer Harless opening the door and the driver speaking "I have got a carry" an entire 5 seconds went by. This is the video that apparently upset the law enforcement representation...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-maez4-53tg&t=3s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If anyone has had a less than ideal encounter during a traffic stop your testimony at these hearings is crucial. We're not trying to stop anyone from offering the fact that they're armed. We're trying to remove the criminal penalty should you forget or be verbally manipulated into not being able to do it, but also realizing that if you are specifically asked and you lie it would be obstruction - but you'd be given an opportunity to answer.
I'm not going to delve into the whole he said / she said stuff earlier in this thread but I wanted to post a link for those of you who wonder what we did at proponent testimony for HB142. In addition to the excellent testimony offered by others we brought visual evidence of how active notification can go wrong when the cop keeps interrupting you, not listening to the words coming out of your mouth, and focuses on just accusing you of lying -- and you're so scatter brained you can't finish saying that you're licensed. (but clearly make attempts to do so)
I took our copy of the Harless traffic stop and aggressively edited out all of the nonsense periods and focused on JUST the notification aspects. This video was played for the whole committee with pauses inserted into the video for me to narrate / elaborate and point out things such as "LOOK THIS IS HIS LICENSE IN HIS HAND"
The running clock at the bottom is to show how much actual real time transpired. Between Officer Harless opening the door and the driver speaking "I have got a carry" an entire 5 seconds went by. This is the video that apparently upset the law enforcement representation...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-maez4-53tg&t=3s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If anyone has had a less than ideal encounter during a traffic stop your testimony at these hearings is crucial. We're not trying to stop anyone from offering the fact that they're armed. We're trying to remove the criminal penalty should you forget or be verbally manipulated into not being able to do it, but also realizing that if you are specifically asked and you lie it would be obstruction - but you'd be given an opportunity to answer.
Jeff Garvas, President
Ohioans For Concealed Carry
Contrary to a popular belief when I brag about OFCC accomplishments I'm not looking for your thank you or personal recognition. I'd much prefer you send me an email telling me when you are going to get involved in doing what I've been doing since 1999. We are only as effective as we make ourselves. We need the next generation of OFCC to step to the plate.
Is that you?
To Contact Me: Use This Form and pick my name.
Ohioans For Concealed Carry
Contrary to a popular belief when I brag about OFCC accomplishments I'm not looking for your thank you or personal recognition. I'd much prefer you send me an email telling me when you are going to get involved in doing what I've been doing since 1999. We are only as effective as we make ourselves. We need the next generation of OFCC to step to the plate.
Is that you?
To Contact Me: Use This Form and pick my name.
- Chuck
- OFCC Director
- Posts: 4753
- Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:06 am
- Location: Licking County
Re: OFCC member in the news r/t proposed changes in the law
Thank you Jeff
Your testimony was great
If you are specifically asked about ANYTHING, and lie about it, it's obstruction
Right?
A criminal can remain silent, but he can't lie,
A law abiding citizen can do neither
Your testimony was great
If you are specifically asked about ANYTHING, and lie about it, it's obstruction
Right?
A criminal can remain silent, but he can't lie,
A law abiding citizen can do neither
Ain't activism fun?
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
- jgarvas
- OFCC Director
- Posts: 3163
- Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:35 pm
- Location: Northern Summit County
- Contact:
Re: OFCC member in the news r/t proposed changes in the law
That is my understanding. You can not lie to the police, but you typically have the right to remain silent. Just not with notification in Ohio, so if you are unwittingly carrying and your license expired, or you left your wallet at home, you have to admit to those infractions verbally and implicate yourself.Chuck wrote: If you are specifically asked about ANYTHING, and lie about it, it's obstruction
Right?
A criminal can remain silent, but he can't lie,
A law abiding citizen can do neither
Jeff Garvas, President
Ohioans For Concealed Carry
Contrary to a popular belief when I brag about OFCC accomplishments I'm not looking for your thank you or personal recognition. I'd much prefer you send me an email telling me when you are going to get involved in doing what I've been doing since 1999. We are only as effective as we make ourselves. We need the next generation of OFCC to step to the plate.
Is that you?
To Contact Me: Use This Form and pick my name.
Ohioans For Concealed Carry
Contrary to a popular belief when I brag about OFCC accomplishments I'm not looking for your thank you or personal recognition. I'd much prefer you send me an email telling me when you are going to get involved in doing what I've been doing since 1999. We are only as effective as we make ourselves. We need the next generation of OFCC to step to the plate.
Is that you?
To Contact Me: Use This Form and pick my name.
- AlanM
- Posts: 9435
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:38 am
- Location: Was Stow, OH now Charlottesville, VA
Re: OFCC member in the news r/t proposed changes in the law
The link to Jeff Garvas' video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-maez4-53tg&t=3s is dead.
This one works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zdLctr7Bo8.
That's just the first listed video of ten when you Google Youtube for "Officer Harless".
This one works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zdLctr7Bo8.
That's just the first listed video of ten when you Google Youtube for "Officer Harless".
AlanM
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
- sd790
- OFCC Patron Member
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:40 pm
- Location: Delaware
Re: OFCC member in the news r/t proposed changes in the law
Chuck, I understand your point and appreciate your opinion, but you have to admit that BFA does far more than just market themselves. Their FASTER Saves Lives program is in my opinion the best way to protect students in schools. They are frequently in the national spotlight talking about real issues and they organize lots of top-notch training events each year. Yes, they are good at fund-raising, but as you know that is critical to being successful. Yeah, their forums are somewhat lame, but we at OFCC could learn much from them.Chuck wrote:...snip...
They're marketers, salesmen
They're big on all the insurance and raffles and fund raising and everything and what do you get?
...snip...
We are more worried about quality in legislation than in success in marketing
That's why we're not as well known I guess
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
- Chuck
- OFCC Director
- Posts: 4753
- Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:06 am
- Location: Licking County
Re: OFCC member in the news r/t proposed changes in the law
AlanM wrote:The link to Jeff Garvas' video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-maez4-53tg&t=3s is dead.
This one works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zdLctr7Bo8.
That's just the first listed video of ten when you Google Youtube for "Officer Harless".
The link is working now
It was marked as private until now
Ain't activism fun?
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
- Chuck
- OFCC Director
- Posts: 4753
- Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:06 am
- Location: Licking County
Re: OFCC member in the news r/t proposed changes in the law
I dispute the notion that HB 142 has flaws.
It is a PERFECT bill, in my opinion.
It adds not one word to the law but erases every mention of required notification for CHL holders.
And it doesn't cost a cent.
Not many bills can match that
It's PERFECT
It is a PERFECT bill, in my opinion.
It adds not one word to the law but erases every mention of required notification for CHL holders.
And it doesn't cost a cent.
Not many bills can match that
It's PERFECT
Ain't activism fun?
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
-
- OFCC Coordinator
- Posts: 6811
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:18 am
- Location: Amish Country, Wayne County
Re: OFCC member in the news r/t proposed changes in the law
Morne and Chuck may not have been here during the OFCC/BFA split, but I was. I remember screen names that were here, then the were not.
I was not directly involved, but since I share a first name with a lady on BFA, people confused me with her quite a bit. I still haven't figured out how.
I will not repeat what I have been told happened to cause the split.. What I will say is that BFA was not to be discussed on the forum here, good or bad. I visited BFA's forum every once in a while, and it did not take long to find absolutely vicious comments about OFCC. I did figure out that they apparently added a rule to stop discussion of OFCC, and that was invoked in the threads that I was reading. It seemed it did not matter, because the negativity did not stop. Names that I did not see here anymore showed up there. From what I read here and there, I decided that this was the place that I wanted to be, and the organization that I chose to support.
I met a former poster from here in real life. He found out that I was from OFCC, and immediately started making a case as to why BFA was the better organization by completely trashing OFCC, saying that the split was OFCC's fault, and that BFA was innocent. This is within half an hour of meeting the man. How is that either civil or appropriate?
OFCC was the organization that secured our right to carry concealed firearms. I got my license in April 2004, the day after we could apply. OFCC has sued Oberlin, and Cleveland (at least twice). They helped an open carrier named Dan who was arrested for open carrying. They supported the concealed carrier in Canton when he was harangued by Officer Harless. Almost all of the poison pills-from the original bill have been removed because of the hard work of the OFCC. There was the firearm must be uncovered in the car rule, and the storage containers (purses) with a firearm had to be locked rule, and the parking lot could be a criminal trespassing violation. Notification is the last, and there is great progress on that. They are helping Students for Concealed Carry gain the ability to have And when the governor wanted a law banning modified compartments in automobiles and trucks to nab people for drug running, it was OFCC that was there making sure that the rights of CHL holders were not diminished. This is just what I can remember off the top of my head.
BFA has their mission, like the FASTER program, and we have ours. Ours is securing our rights by legislation, and by judicial means if necessary. It is a less flashy way of making a name for ourselves, and it is costly, but it preserves our rights for our posterity.
If you value our mission to secure by legislation and judicial means, consider joining, becoming a patron member, or donating to help cover legal costs.
The Party in the Park is in August. If you want to help set up, tear down, and whatever else needs to be done, let Chuck know. He will gratefully put you to work.
I was not directly involved, but since I share a first name with a lady on BFA, people confused me with her quite a bit. I still haven't figured out how.
I will not repeat what I have been told happened to cause the split.. What I will say is that BFA was not to be discussed on the forum here, good or bad. I visited BFA's forum every once in a while, and it did not take long to find absolutely vicious comments about OFCC. I did figure out that they apparently added a rule to stop discussion of OFCC, and that was invoked in the threads that I was reading. It seemed it did not matter, because the negativity did not stop. Names that I did not see here anymore showed up there. From what I read here and there, I decided that this was the place that I wanted to be, and the organization that I chose to support.
I met a former poster from here in real life. He found out that I was from OFCC, and immediately started making a case as to why BFA was the better organization by completely trashing OFCC, saying that the split was OFCC's fault, and that BFA was innocent. This is within half an hour of meeting the man. How is that either civil or appropriate?
OFCC was the organization that secured our right to carry concealed firearms. I got my license in April 2004, the day after we could apply. OFCC has sued Oberlin, and Cleveland (at least twice). They helped an open carrier named Dan who was arrested for open carrying. They supported the concealed carrier in Canton when he was harangued by Officer Harless. Almost all of the poison pills-from the original bill have been removed because of the hard work of the OFCC. There was the firearm must be uncovered in the car rule, and the storage containers (purses) with a firearm had to be locked rule, and the parking lot could be a criminal trespassing violation. Notification is the last, and there is great progress on that. They are helping Students for Concealed Carry gain the ability to have And when the governor wanted a law banning modified compartments in automobiles and trucks to nab people for drug running, it was OFCC that was there making sure that the rights of CHL holders were not diminished. This is just what I can remember off the top of my head.
BFA has their mission, like the FASTER program, and we have ours. Ours is securing our rights by legislation, and by judicial means if necessary. It is a less flashy way of making a name for ourselves, and it is costly, but it preserves our rights for our posterity.
If you value our mission to secure by legislation and judicial means, consider joining, becoming a patron member, or donating to help cover legal costs.
The Party in the Park is in August. If you want to help set up, tear down, and whatever else needs to be done, let Chuck know. He will gratefully put you to work.
RIFLEWOMAN, wife of a RIFLEMAN, mom of 9, NRA life member, OFCC Patron member!
-
- OFCC Coordinator
- Posts: 6811
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:18 am
- Location: Amish Country, Wayne County
Re: OFCC member in the news r/t proposed changes in the law
Moderator cap on...
Since like the third or fourth post in the thread, we went on a huuuuge rabbit trail. I understand why, but let's get back on track.
The topic should be the proposed changes in the law.
Since like the third or fourth post in the thread, we went on a huuuuge rabbit trail. I understand why, but let's get back on track.
The topic should be the proposed changes in the law.
RIFLEWOMAN, wife of a RIFLEMAN, mom of 9, NRA life member, OFCC Patron member!
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- OFCC Patron Member
- Posts: 2680
- Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:30 pm
- Location: Wood county
Re: OFCC member in the news r/t proposed changes in the law
While reading the opponent testimony of the three LE groups that testified against HB142 I noticed some commonality. Two of the three groups argued that if an officer happened to see a firearm during an encounter it would cause a "dangerous condition" as one opponent put it. All three LE opponents alluded to the fact that a person's CHL status on LEADS is insufficient, for various reasons, to inform an officer that a person may be armed. I actually agree with that assertion. I disagree that having that information is helpful.
I believe in American exceptianalism
Fear the government that fears your guns
NRA endowment life member
Fear the government that fears your guns
NRA endowment life member
- Chuck
- OFCC Director
- Posts: 4753
- Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:06 am
- Location: Licking County
Re: OFCC member in the news r/t proposed changes in the law
When I read that testimony the only answer that came to mind was "This guy needs more training", over and over again
Doesn't make me feel good thinking this about supposed leadership in the LEO community.
Doesn't make me feel good thinking this about supposed leadership in the LEO community.
Ain't activism fun?
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
- Mr. Glock
- OFCC Patron Member
- Posts: 8965
- Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:20 pm
- Location: NE Ohio
Re: OFCC member in the news r/t proposed changes in the law
Any LEO who doesn't treat every traffic stop with the caution that there may be a gun in the car is an idiot.
Any LEO leader who doesn't differentiate between a CHL and a BG is disingenuous or an idiot. Or both.
Any LEO leader who doesn't differentiate between a CHL and a BG is disingenuous or an idiot. Or both.
OFCC Patron, GOA, SAF, YouTube 2A Patreon, NRA Benefactor Life & Hot Stove League Member