Man mauled to death by dog

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deanimator
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Re: Man mauled to death by dog

Post by deanimator »

M-Quigley wrote:Say hypothetically someone is willing to take the risk to themselves to get involved in a situation like this, where without some kind of intervention prior to the police arriving (who knows when that might be depending on where you live) that person could die, what could a person do to at least divert the dogs attack off of the initial victim? Pepper spray, ball bat, claw hammer, or crow bar over the head, some method that doesn't involve the chance of accidentally shooting the victim while the dog still has a hold of him/her.
There's no way on earth I'm going to VOLUNTARILY try to use an impact weapon on a pit bull that's trying to kill somebody.

Pit bulls have thick skulls. I have zero confidence that I'm going to do anything except get the dog to turn on me.

Given time, I'd pull my 4" Model 29-2 out of the safe and load it with 240gr. Winchester white box magnums.

If I didn't think there was time, I'd grab my 3 1/2" Citadel M1911 and AT LEAST a couple of magazines of 200 gr. Gold Dots or 200gr. Hornady XTPs.

My goal would be to protect somebody from harm, not suffer it myself to no purpose.
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Face
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Re: Man mauled to death by dog

Post by Face »

My take is, and solely MY 66 year old opinion. I do not live in a big city, never have, never will.

My #1 responsibility is to protect my spouse and myself. Now in my own neighborhood where I know most of the people and dogs on site, I would probably try to do something. That something would include a firearm. I don't own a baseball bat, hammers are in the toolbox and I'm not taking on an unknown animal in the dark.

Now if it was someone random screaming in the night - maybe. We have a sort of group home now in the neighborhood that is non-criminal, mainly non-violent mental types. Some look pretty shady. They are supposed to be inside at night - but we all know how that works. I have raised my situational awareness just because of this.

In the actual incident where it was "probably" a dog owned by a person of interest, dog fight instigator, drug dealer , gang member- you get the idea-, I personally would be reluctant to intervene. One could very easily be overwhelmed by a dog owner (and friends) that is more crazy and a bigger threat than the dog. To simplify if the someone was a known crazed pit bull owner and I heard this - I'd leave it to the police. If I was 20 or 30 years younger, I'd react differently. One also needs to consider if they DID do something that the repercussions from the dog owner or his gang , after his month in jail could be deadly.

Just as we as CHL carriers learn to be aware of our situations, maybe and I do say MAYBE some of the blame is on the deceased. Why was he walking at 5:30am? Is that a bad neighborhood? Did the person have any way to defend himself? I know that sounds harsh, but if I was walking , even in my fairly safe neighborhood, I'd be alert... and carrying.

Fact is... I have a greater fear of a bad dog encounter than a bad human. I wonder if there are any statistics regarding the two.
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JustaShooter
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Re: Man mauled to death by dog

Post by JustaShooter »

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:What's my plan? Easy:

Step one: Investigate what in the world is going on.
Step two: Come up with plan.
Step three: Implement plan and adapt as needed.
Your plan, so far, is to come up with a plan. That's nice. If I may suggest, you might want to expand upon that because you finish with expressing that you wouldn't be able to not act. The idea that you'll logically work through the scenario in a calm and orderly manner while at the same time responding to that overwhelming emotional impetus you've identified, well it's not very likely.

Also, and this is entirely up to you, but you might want to consider that you're not the only one that has to live with the consequences of your plan plan. If that very well thought out plan of yours results in serious injury, your love ones get to share in the emotional and fiscal pain.

Or you could recognize that, sometimes - not all the time but sometimes, the best thing to do is to let the authorities who are paid and authorized to deal with situations deal with it. Even though that failure to act makes you feel emotionally bad.
So, I'm not sure what issue you have with the above, honestly. I'm approaching it from the perspective that I hear a guy screaming for his life in obvious distress, and I *don't* yet know that he's being mauled by a dog. I have given considerable thought to how I would approach a situation with a dog, and how I would approach a situation involving human on human violence of varying types, and many others besides. So yes, I'd see what was going on first, then decide what to do, come up with an extemporaneous plan based on the situation, and then act - or *not* act, depending. That does not mean I would charge in blindly with guns-a-blazin' as you seem to indicate my approach would be. I literally can't conceive of a better approach.
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Re: Man mauled to death by dog

Post by carmen fovozzo »

Face wrote:My take is, and solely MY 66 year old opinion. I do not live in a big city, never have, never will.

My #1 responsibility is to protect my spouse and myself. Now in my own neighborhood where I know most of the people and dogs on site, I would probably try to do something. That something would include a firearm. I don't own a baseball bat, hammers are in the toolbox and I'm not taking on an unknown animal in the dark.

Now if it was someone random screaming in the night - maybe. We have a sort of group home now in the neighborhood that is non-criminal, mainly non-violent mental types. Some look pretty shady. They are supposed to be inside at night - but we all know how that works. I have raised my situational awareness just because of this.

In the actual incident where it was "probably" a dog owned by a person of interest, dog fight instigator, drug dealer , gang member- you get the idea-, I personally would be reluctant to intervene. One could very easily be overwhelmed by a dog owner (and friends) that is more crazy and a bigger threat than the dog. To simplify if the someone was a known crazed pit bull owner and I heard this - I'd leave it to the police. If I was 20 or 30 years younger, I'd react differently. One also needs to consider if they DID do something that the repercussions from the dog owner or his gang , after his month in jail could be deadly.

Just as we as CHL carriers learn to be aware of our situations, maybe and I do say MAYBE some of the blame is on the deceased. Why was he walking at 5:30am? Is that a bad neighborhood? Did the person have any way to defend himself? I know that sounds harsh, but if I was walking , even in my fairly safe neighborhood, I'd be alert... and carrying.

Fact is... I have a greater fear of a bad dog encounter than a bad human. I wonder if there are any statistics regarding the two.
You're blaming the dead guy ? Ridiculous..It's a public street...he could of been doing anything including breaking the law...we don't know...does he deserve
to die ?
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Re: Man mauled to death by dog

Post by Javelin Man »

I jog at 5:00 a.m most mornings, occasionally outside. My twin brother will start long training runs about then. When we ran in Death Valley, I put in a quick jog at 3:00 a.m. the day before because my body clock was still three hours ahead.

My wife used to work a late shift at the Toledo Blade newspaper and get home at 2:00 a.m. Some would accuse her of nefarious activities because she was out at 1, 2 in the morning without knowing her reasons for being out.

The time of day/morning/night has nothing to do with this issue. A person is crying for help; do we help or not? Liberals would say to call 911 and wait for the authorities. And once the dead body is found, let's pass laws and prevent that. More gun control! Oh, it was a dog. Outlaw Pitbulls! Oh, it was a knife. More gun control!

Yes, protect oneself, but are we an island or a community? Do we help our fellow man regardless of his color/race/gender/drug use/religion/age/etc.? Do we ask for a resume to see if he's worthy of us helping or turn a blind eye because he may possibly be dealing drugs or running a prostitution ring? Do we know anything about him/her? If not, let's assume he's an outstanding citizen, not someone with an outstanding warrant.

Society is starting to close up and not be a community anymore because of attitudes like this. Help as much as you safely can. If it's only dialing 911, then do it. If you can do more, then do it. But do something if someone is screaming for their life. Sheesh.

:roll:
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Re: Man mauled to death by dog

Post by catfish86 »

I would intervene after assessing. With dogs there are a few techniques to keep in mind.

First, if being bitten...SHOVE WHATEVER IS BEING BITTEN INTO THE THROAT OF THE ANIMAL. A dog's jaws are designed to grip and tear, not prevent something from being shoved in.

A couple other tidbits about dogs:

When engaged/biting another it is best to grab their hind legs and pull backwards (important to keep momentum backwards). Grabbing a collar puts your hand in range of the jaws and dogs often slip collars. If needing time and distance swing in a circle and throw the dog, preferable against a wall or other hard immovable object.

Dogs do have a prey instinct, running gives them your back and encourages them to chase.

That same prey instinct makes them distractable with a laser dot. This is worth a BRIEF effort.

Animals (horses and dogs included) have a natural aversion to loud explosive sounds. Depending on the animal, shooting itself can make them lose interest in the attack and run.
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Re: Man mauled to death by dog

Post by M-Quigley »

deanimator wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:Say hypothetically someone is willing to take the risk to themselves to get involved in a situation like this, where without some kind of intervention prior to the police arriving (who knows when that might be depending on where you live) that person could die, what could a person do to at least divert the dogs attack off of the initial victim? Pepper spray, ball bat, claw hammer, or crow bar over the head, some method that doesn't involve the chance of accidentally shooting the victim while the dog still has a hold of him/her.
There's no way on earth I'm going to VOLUNTARILY try to use an impact weapon on a pit bull that's trying to kill somebody.

Pit bulls have thick skulls. I have zero confidence that I'm going to do anything except get the dog to turn on me.

Given time, I'd pull my 4" Model 29-2 out of the safe and load it with 240gr. Winchester white box magnums.

If I didn't think there was time, I'd grab my 3 1/2" Citadel M1911 and AT LEAST a couple of magazines of 200 gr. Gold Dots or 200gr. Hornady XTPs.

My goal would be to protect somebody from harm, not suffer it myself to no purpose.
It wouldn't be to no purpose. Although diverting the dogs attack off of the victim might get the dog to turn on me, it might be safer to then shoot the dog with less risk to the victim. I didn't mean to imply that a gun shouldn't be available and ready to be used if needed. Those two examples you mentioned sound like great choices.
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Re: Man mauled to death by dog

Post by smokewagon »

The two times I have ever had to place my hand on the grip of the pistol and prepare to draw was becouse of a dog attack threat. One was on a hike with my kids well off the beaten path and had two dogs charge the kids. I didn't know thier intentions so I prepared for the worst. Dogs turned out friendly and ran back to thier oblivious owners 100 yards away.
Second was worse, was at work by myself in a field (dozer operator) when two dogs charged me. They barked and snarled like they wanted me dead. Absolutely viscous. I took a swing at ones face with a hand saw and all he did was go for my arm. The more I yeld, the madder they got. Finally, thet got the idea to surround me. Thats when I was truly worried. Figured it was time to put an end to them and just as I start to unholster, some woman pops out of the woods in the distance and yells for her muts. No apology either, in fact she ignored me all together. Yeah to me dogs are bigger threats than people.
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