Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

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lionsfan
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Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by lionsfan »

Three teenage burglars shot dead in Oklahoma by homeowners son with an AR-15.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/3-teens-fat ... -arrested/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by CroManGun »

Another happy ending! The woman who drove them there has been arrested.
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by techmike »

lionsfan wrote:Three teenage burglars shot dead in Oklahoma by homeowners son with an AR-15.
<sarcasm>

Oh that can't be true, must be fake news. The all-knowing anti gun crowd has decreed that the evil looking AR type rifles cannot be used by people for anything like self defense. They spray bullets like a garden hose and maim anyone that touches one. They must all be banned. And also the 600 round hi-capacity magazines must also be banned. Nothing to see here, move along.

</sarcasm>
CroManGun wrote:Another happy ending! The woman who drove them there has been arrested.
Yes, she was the "master mind" behind this ill fated crime. Throw away the key. :x
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by Brian D. »

Other than being relatively noisy (depending on caliber and ammo used they are pretty good for home defense, except for being somewhat awkward in tight spaces or moving forward (easier for an assailant to grab hold of than a handgun). Okay, I listed two downsides there, but the first could be negated with a suppressor. The unwieldy part is generally not a big deal if you can hunker down and wait for the bad guys to come to you.
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by bignflnut »

Elizabeth Marie Rodriguez, 21, is facing an extraordinary set of charges of three counts of first-degree murder and first-degree burglary. The men killed were actually her accomplices in an attempted burglary. None of the them had a gun but one had a knife and one has brass knuckles. The homeowner’s son however did have a gun and shot and killed all three men. Prosecutors then charged Rodriguez with the deaths even though she was only the getaway driver.

Two of the men broke through a glass door in the back of the house. The homeowner’s son confronted them and, after a brief exchange, shot them with what is believed to be an AR-15.
I disagree. These three weren't murdered. Their deaths were justified by OK castle doctrine.

She was part of the burglary, I agree. She can't be given responsibility for the acts of others (be they innocent survivor or innocent until proven guilty burglar) Murder? There was no murder.

This twists castle doctrine into some sort of qualified immunity agreement, giving responsibility for the resultant deaths to the surviving conspirators. Danger Will Robinson!
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by A_F »

bignflnut wrote:
Elizabeth Marie Rodriguez, 21, is facing an extraordinary set of charges of three counts of first-degree murder and first-degree burglary. The men killed were actually her accomplices in an attempted burglary. None of the them had a gun but one had a knife and one has brass knuckles. The homeowner’s son however did have a gun and shot and killed all three men. Prosecutors then charged Rodriguez with the deaths even though she was only the getaway driver.

Two of the men broke through a glass door in the back of the house. The homeowner’s son confronted them and, after a brief exchange, shot them with what is believed to be an AR-15.
I disagree. These three weren't murdered. Their deaths were justified by OK castle doctrine.

She was part of the burglary, I agree. She can't be given responsibility for the acts of others (be they innocent survivor or innocent until proven guilty burglar) Murder? There was no murder.

This twists castle doctrine into some sort of qualified immunity agreement, giving responsibility for the resultant deaths to the surviving conspirators. Danger Will Robinson!
fairly common in many states. Criminals should even know this by now.
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by dl1911 »

A_F wrote:
bignflnut wrote:
Elizabeth Marie Rodriguez, 21, is facing an extraordinary set of charges of three counts of first-degree murder and first-degree burglary. The men killed were actually her accomplices in an attempted burglary. None of the them had a gun but one had a knife and one has brass knuckles. The homeowner’s son however did have a gun and shot and killed all three men. Prosecutors then charged Rodriguez with the deaths even though she was only the getaway driver.

Two of the men broke through a glass door in the back of the house. The homeowner’s son confronted them and, after a brief exchange, shot them with what is believed to be an AR-15.
I disagree. These three weren't murdered. Their deaths were justified by OK castle doctrine.

She was part of the burglary, I agree. She can't be given responsibility for the acts of others (be they innocent survivor or innocent until proven guilty burglar) Murder? There was no murder.

This twists castle doctrine into some sort of qualified immunity agreement, giving responsibility for the resultant deaths to the surviving conspirators. Danger Will Robinson!
fairly common in many states. Criminals should even know this by now.
Yup, if anyone dies during the commission of a violent crime, those responsible for committing the crime can be charged with murder. Doesn't matter if you're the getaway driver, never entered the location where the murder occurred, or the dead person is one of the criminals.
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by schmieg »

It's called felony murder - participating in a felonious act that results in a death, whether the death be that of a victim, a perpetrator or a bystander.
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by pirateguy191 »

Maybe it should be called felonious homicide?
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by bignflnut »

pirateguy191 wrote:Maybe it should be called felonious homicide?
The Legal Differences between Murder and Homicide

The terms murder and homicide are frequently interchanged; however, there is a difference between the two. Homicide is the killing of one person by another. Murder is a form of criminal homicide, where the perpetrator intended to kill the other person, sometimes with premeditation (a plan to kill). Manslaughter is another type of criminal homicide.

Homicides are criminal, excusable, or justifiable. A criminal homicide is unjustifiable, with consequences being severe. An excusable or justifiable homicide is one without criminal intent to kill someone. Examples of excusable or justifiable homicide would be someone killing someone else as a means of self defense, or defending another person, or law enforcement who kills someone in the line of duty.

Murders are classified in different degrees depending on the gravity of the crime and the intent of the perpetrator. The classifications of murder are first degree, second degree, and third degree or manslaughter. Some states do not use the classification of third degree murder.

In first degree murder, there is premeditation and cruelty with afterthought. In California, a killing that may not have been intentional but happened because of a crime such as rape, robbery, arson, or kidnapping may be considered first degree murder. A murder with the use of a deadly weapon such as a gun will increase the jail term for the perpetrator.

Second degree murder is similar; however, it shows no premeditation. Manslaughter or third degree murder is an act to harm someone that results in death.
Sounds like manslaughter/3rd degree murder is most applicable. 1st degree can't stick, unless there's a specific upgrade in the law that can be cited in OK. "...a killing that may not have been intentional but happened because of a crime such as rape, robbery, arson, or kidnapping may be considered first degree murder. "

Obviously the person charged had no intent to murder the deceased. Giving her the charges and responsibility of the deceased actors seems extra-judicial (not to be squishy on her crimes). Instead of warehousing her for a number of decades (not that OK will, she'll be quietly paroled in a few years), this is where the death penalty saves time and cash.

I bristle when a proper self defense results in murder charges. I'm not in favor of the upgrade simply because we're not serious about bringing forth the proper punishment, where one count should get you to capital punishment, but they seem to need 4 (and I still doubt that she serves more than 10 years).

OK was spared 300% more cost, though. So, silver lining...
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by Brian D. »

pirateguy191 wrote:Maybe it should be called felonious homicide?
Regarding the young man defending self, family, and home with that AR it should be called COMMENDABLE homicide. Guy needs the mayor to present him with a laurel, and hardy handshake.
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by CroManGun »

Brian D. wrote:
pirateguy191 wrote:Maybe it should be called felonious homicide?
Regarding the young man defending self, family, and home with that AR it should be called COMMENDABLE homicide. Guy needs the mayor to present him with a laurel, and hardy handshake.
And a key to the city! Maybe even name a street after him! Yee Haa!
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by Bianchi? »

Brian D. wrote:Guy needs the mayor to present him with a laurel, and hardy handshake.
Shouldn't the president of the welcoming committee be handling that?
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by M-Quigley »

You just had to know this was coming. :roll:

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/03/3 ... nce-ar-15/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IMO, the criminals had plenty of chances not to do what is essentially a home invasion before they did it.

and of course there's the getaway driver. :roll:

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/03/3 ... t-friends/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
She said she’d done other break-ins in Tulsa County and near Owasso, but no one had ever been home.
So what? They either knew someone was home or didn't care, because they apparently didn't do the things most burglars who do unoccupied break ins to see if someone is home or not. Plus they wouldn't have been carrying those weapons if they didn't think they'd need to use them on some innocent victim.
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?

Post by kcclark »

M-Quigley wrote:You just had to know this was coming. :roll:

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/03/3 ... nce-ar-15/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IMO, the criminals had plenty of chances not to do what is essentially a home invasion before they did it.

and of course there's the getaway driver. :roll:
Similar posted here:
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/04/02 ... air-fight/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I really liked this comment:
Reminds me of what my NCO said when I was a young security policeman in the USAF. The fence around the restricted area is NOT there to keep the bad guys out. It’s there to tell you when to shoot..
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