Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
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Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
Three teenage burglars shot dead in Oklahoma by homeowners son with an AR-15.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/3-teens-fat ... -arrested/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/3-teens-fat ... -arrested/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
Another happy ending! The woman who drove them there has been arrested.
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
<sarcasm>lionsfan wrote:Three teenage burglars shot dead in Oklahoma by homeowners son with an AR-15.
Oh that can't be true, must be fake news. The all-knowing anti gun crowd has decreed that the evil looking AR type rifles cannot be used by people for anything like self defense. They spray bullets like a garden hose and maim anyone that touches one. They must all be banned. And also the 600 round hi-capacity magazines must also be banned. Nothing to see here, move along.
</sarcasm>
Yes, she was the "master mind" behind this ill fated crime. Throw away the key.CroManGun wrote:Another happy ending! The woman who drove them there has been arrested.
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
Other than being relatively noisy (depending on caliber and ammo used they are pretty good for home defense, except for being somewhat awkward in tight spaces or moving forward (easier for an assailant to grab hold of than a handgun). Okay, I listed two downsides there, but the first could be negated with a suppressor. The unwieldy part is generally not a big deal if you can hunker down and wait for the bad guys to come to you.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
I disagree. These three weren't murdered. Their deaths were justified by OK castle doctrine.Elizabeth Marie Rodriguez, 21, is facing an extraordinary set of charges of three counts of first-degree murder and first-degree burglary. The men killed were actually her accomplices in an attempted burglary. None of the them had a gun but one had a knife and one has brass knuckles. The homeowner’s son however did have a gun and shot and killed all three men. Prosecutors then charged Rodriguez with the deaths even though she was only the getaway driver.
Two of the men broke through a glass door in the back of the house. The homeowner’s son confronted them and, after a brief exchange, shot them with what is believed to be an AR-15.
She was part of the burglary, I agree. She can't be given responsibility for the acts of others (be they innocent survivor or innocent until proven guilty burglar) Murder? There was no murder.
This twists castle doctrine into some sort of qualified immunity agreement, giving responsibility for the resultant deaths to the surviving conspirators. Danger Will Robinson!
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"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
fairly common in many states. Criminals should even know this by now.bignflnut wrote:I disagree. These three weren't murdered. Their deaths were justified by OK castle doctrine.Elizabeth Marie Rodriguez, 21, is facing an extraordinary set of charges of three counts of first-degree murder and first-degree burglary. The men killed were actually her accomplices in an attempted burglary. None of the them had a gun but one had a knife and one has brass knuckles. The homeowner’s son however did have a gun and shot and killed all three men. Prosecutors then charged Rodriguez with the deaths even though she was only the getaway driver.
Two of the men broke through a glass door in the back of the house. The homeowner’s son confronted them and, after a brief exchange, shot them with what is believed to be an AR-15.
She was part of the burglary, I agree. She can't be given responsibility for the acts of others (be they innocent survivor or innocent until proven guilty burglar) Murder? There was no murder.
This twists castle doctrine into some sort of qualified immunity agreement, giving responsibility for the resultant deaths to the surviving conspirators. Danger Will Robinson!
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
Yup, if anyone dies during the commission of a violent crime, those responsible for committing the crime can be charged with murder. Doesn't matter if you're the getaway driver, never entered the location where the murder occurred, or the dead person is one of the criminals.A_F wrote:fairly common in many states. Criminals should even know this by now.bignflnut wrote:I disagree. These three weren't murdered. Their deaths were justified by OK castle doctrine.Elizabeth Marie Rodriguez, 21, is facing an extraordinary set of charges of three counts of first-degree murder and first-degree burglary. The men killed were actually her accomplices in an attempted burglary. None of the them had a gun but one had a knife and one has brass knuckles. The homeowner’s son however did have a gun and shot and killed all three men. Prosecutors then charged Rodriguez with the deaths even though she was only the getaway driver.
Two of the men broke through a glass door in the back of the house. The homeowner’s son confronted them and, after a brief exchange, shot them with what is believed to be an AR-15.
She was part of the burglary, I agree. She can't be given responsibility for the acts of others (be they innocent survivor or innocent until proven guilty burglar) Murder? There was no murder.
This twists castle doctrine into some sort of qualified immunity agreement, giving responsibility for the resultant deaths to the surviving conspirators. Danger Will Robinson!
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
It's called felony murder - participating in a felonious act that results in a death, whether the death be that of a victim, a perpetrator or a bystander.
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
Maybe it should be called felonious homicide?
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
pirateguy191 wrote:Maybe it should be called felonious homicide?
Sounds like manslaughter/3rd degree murder is most applicable. 1st degree can't stick, unless there's a specific upgrade in the law that can be cited in OK. "...a killing that may not have been intentional but happened because of a crime such as rape, robbery, arson, or kidnapping may be considered first degree murder. "The Legal Differences between Murder and Homicide
The terms murder and homicide are frequently interchanged; however, there is a difference between the two. Homicide is the killing of one person by another. Murder is a form of criminal homicide, where the perpetrator intended to kill the other person, sometimes with premeditation (a plan to kill). Manslaughter is another type of criminal homicide.
Homicides are criminal, excusable, or justifiable. A criminal homicide is unjustifiable, with consequences being severe. An excusable or justifiable homicide is one without criminal intent to kill someone. Examples of excusable or justifiable homicide would be someone killing someone else as a means of self defense, or defending another person, or law enforcement who kills someone in the line of duty.
Murders are classified in different degrees depending on the gravity of the crime and the intent of the perpetrator. The classifications of murder are first degree, second degree, and third degree or manslaughter. Some states do not use the classification of third degree murder.
In first degree murder, there is premeditation and cruelty with afterthought. In California, a killing that may not have been intentional but happened because of a crime such as rape, robbery, arson, or kidnapping may be considered first degree murder. A murder with the use of a deadly weapon such as a gun will increase the jail term for the perpetrator.
Second degree murder is similar; however, it shows no premeditation. Manslaughter or third degree murder is an act to harm someone that results in death.
Obviously the person charged had no intent to murder the deceased. Giving her the charges and responsibility of the deceased actors seems extra-judicial (not to be squishy on her crimes). Instead of warehousing her for a number of decades (not that OK will, she'll be quietly paroled in a few years), this is where the death penalty saves time and cash.
I bristle when a proper self defense results in murder charges. I'm not in favor of the upgrade simply because we're not serious about bringing forth the proper punishment, where one count should get you to capital punishment, but they seem to need 4 (and I still doubt that she serves more than 10 years).
OK was spared 300% more cost, though. So, silver lining...
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"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
Regarding the young man defending self, family, and home with that AR it should be called COMMENDABLE homicide. Guy needs the mayor to present him with a laurel, and hardy handshake.pirateguy191 wrote:Maybe it should be called felonious homicide?
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
And a key to the city! Maybe even name a street after him! Yee Haa!Brian D. wrote:Regarding the young man defending self, family, and home with that AR it should be called COMMENDABLE homicide. Guy needs the mayor to present him with a laurel, and hardy handshake.pirateguy191 wrote:Maybe it should be called felonious homicide?
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
Shouldn't the president of the welcoming committee be handling that?Brian D. wrote:Guy needs the mayor to present him with a laurel, and hardy handshake.
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
You just had to know this was coming.
https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/03/3 ... nce-ar-15/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
IMO, the criminals had plenty of chances not to do what is essentially a home invasion before they did it.
and of course there's the getaway driver.
https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/03/3 ... t-friends/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/03/3 ... nce-ar-15/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
IMO, the criminals had plenty of chances not to do what is essentially a home invasion before they did it.
and of course there's the getaway driver.
https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/03/3 ... t-friends/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So what? They either knew someone was home or didn't care, because they apparently didn't do the things most burglars who do unoccupied break ins to see if someone is home or not. Plus they wouldn't have been carrying those weapons if they didn't think they'd need to use them on some innocent victim.She said she’d done other break-ins in Tulsa County and near Owasso, but no one had ever been home.
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Re: Who says AR-15's aren't good for home defense?
Similar posted here:M-Quigley wrote:You just had to know this was coming.
https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/03/3 ... nce-ar-15/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
IMO, the criminals had plenty of chances not to do what is essentially a home invasion before they did it.
and of course there's the getaway driver.
http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/04/02 ... air-fight/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I really liked this comment:
Reminds me of what my NCO said when I was a young security policeman in the USAF. The fence around the restricted area is NOT there to keep the bad guys out. It’s there to tell you when to shoot..