woman killed in police training exercise

[deanimator]

I saw a picture taken of the officer right before the shooting, he was holding perhaps a J-frame revolver. It may have been possible since it would've been a .38 Special (or .357) that the department didn't have any ammo for said gun.

Regardless, even with blanks, you don't aim right at the person. I shot a 12 gauge blank at a log once, the cardboard plug went 1" into the wood. Most blanks would have some sort of plug which would be enough to injure someone.

But don't point a gun right at someone you don't want to shoot!

Back in 1976, on our first ROTC FTX, we were told that EVEN WITH BLANK ADAPTERS, we were told not to point our M-16A1s DIRECTLY at anyone.

Everyone involved needs to be eaten alive in civil court, like the scarabs ate the Arab laborers in "The Mummy".

You usually only see that level of stupidity in NBA or NFL players out on the town... with a Glock stuffed in their waistbands.

[Brian D.]

During my Cowboy Action days we were occasionally asked to stage gunfights with blanks. One person loaded and was responsible for all blanks used. On a couple occasions we did this as part of a scenic train ride over in central Indiana, robbers stopped and held up the train. I was up front playing the role of gunslinging RR engineer who starts the fight. (Usually those guys get conked on the head, and I felt like switching things up.) Anyhow I actually did aim my muzzle towards one of my pals, who was probably 40-50 yards away, and dropped the hammer. Well, I did hold off to the side a tad, but told him otherwise.

And as you may know, in Cowboy Action Mounted Shooting, they ride through the course breaking balloons with the blank loads. The things aren't harmless at near contact distance, that's for sure. Of course we don't know yet what happened in Florida.

[DontTreadOnMe]

Punta Gorda police chief: 'I am 100-percent accountable'

The chief appeared emotional during his statement. He said he accepts full responsibility for what happened in the parking lot of the Punta Gorda Police Department, but when it came to the tough questions, he wouldn't even listen to them.

That's a good sign. [/sarc]

Mary Knowlton was volunteered to play the role of a police officer in a shoot/don't shoot exercise. Ofifcer Lee Coel played the bad guy. His gun should have been loaded with blanks.

I disagree strongly with this, as many of you do too. Officer Coel shouldn't have pointed a real firearm at her regardless of whether he thought it was loaded or not.

I agree with the Chief that he's responsible for this, but I doubt he really believes that. As in, recognizes that it was his department's foolish implementation of shoot/don't shoot training (pointing a working firearm at a person and pulling the trigger) that allowed this to happen. In exactly the same way that the choice of the instructors at KayJay Gun Shop to do malfunction clearing drills with novices, indoors while people are in other parts of the building, created the unwise situation that, through additional failure to ensure necessary safety, allowed that tragedy to happen.

[steves 50de]

Punta Gorda police chief: 'I am 100-percent accountable'

The chief appeared emotional during his statement. He said he accepts full responsibility for what happened in the parking lot of the Punta Gorda Police Department, but when it came to the tough questions, he wouldn't even listen to them.

That's a good sign. [/sarc]

Mary Knowlton was volunteered to play the role of a police officer in a shoot/don't shoot exercise. Ofifcer Lee Coel played the bad guy. His gun should have been loaded with blanks.

I disagree strongly with this, as many of you do too. Officer Coel shouldn't have pointed a real firearm at her regardless of whether he thought it was loaded or not.

I agree with the Chief that he's responsible for this, but I doubt he really believes that. As in, recognizes that it was his department's foolish implementation of shoot/don't shoot training (pointing a working firearm at a person and pulling the trigger) that allowed this to happen. In exactly the same way that the choice of the instructors at KayJay Gun Shop to do malfunction clearing drills with novices, indoors while people are in other parts of the building, created the unwise situation that, through additional failure to ensure necessary safety, allowed that tragedy to happen.

The airsoft guns we used at fun and gun was great way to have a gun fight and no one gets dead.

[JU-87]

Here is more info on the highly trained Cop:

Three years before the shooting that led to the death of 73-year-old Mary Knowlton on Tuesday, Lee Coel was accused twice of using excessive force and relieved of his duties before investigators found he violated department policies and was allowed to resign.

This year, he was sued in Punta Gorda after he ordered his K-9 to attack a bicyclist who was stopped for riding without a light at night, inflicting severe injuries that required surgery.

The officer’s background provides yet another twist to the death of the woman who was shot during a role-playing session in which she was a crime victim and he took the part of the “bad guy,” police said.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/f ... ute_Herald" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[gaptrick]

The gun should have been loaded with blanks?? I strongly disagree. It should have been a blue gun... period. Never point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy, and treat every gun as loaded are 2 rules that of all people a COP ought to know...

[WestonDon]

I don't believe I could make myself purposely point a gun at another person and pull the trigger. No matter how many times I checked it for empty. Let alone for blanks.

[TSiWRX]

The airsoft guns we used at fun and gun was great way to have a gun fight and no one gets dead.

There's so much good hardware these days to run shoot/no-shoot or Force-on-Force, that this is doubly sad that this tragedy happened at a police event.

[High Power]

During my Cowboy Action days we were occasionally asked to stage gunfights with blanks. One person loaded and was responsible for all blanks used. On a couple occasions we did this as part of a scenic train ride over in central Indiana, robbers stopped and held up the train. I was up front playing the role of gunslinging RR engineer who starts the fight. (Usually those guys get conked on the head, and I felt like switching things up.) Anyhow I actually did aim my muzzle towards one of my pals, who was probably 40-50 yards away, and dropped the hammer. Well, I did hold off to the side a tad, but told him otherwise.

And as you may know, in Cowboy Action Mounted Shooting, they ride through the course breaking balloons with the blank loads. The things aren't harmless at near contact distance, that's for sure. Of course we don't know yet what happened in Florida.

When I was about six years old, my parents took us to a " frontier Wild West town" in upstate New York. We were on the train that got "robbed."

The "BGs" got on the train and "shot everything up." I remember being a little scared but saw my dad laughing. Then it dawned on me that everyone was pretending.

One of the "BGs" came over to me and pointed the revolver in my face. He told me to open my mouth then stuck the muzzle inside it. He asked, "Do you have any gold fillings in there?"

Do you know how you talk when the dentist is trying to carry on a conversation? I could not enunciate the word "no." I was hoping he understood my "uh-uh" to mean "no." Even though I realized we were pretending I was still scared.

If time travel ever becomes possible I'd like to go back to 1964 and to the frontier town and give the "BG" a lesson in "robbing" kids at gun point.

[Brian D.]

Can't say I blame you for that, High Power.

[High Power]

Can't say I blame you for that, High Power.

I guess I should count my blessings. Here's a disturbing article and video of a six-year-old being terrorized under the guise of Isis "training."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news ... ld-6640396" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JU-87]

Only Cops should own guns. Because they have special training. Big eyeroll.

[catfish86]

All the training in the world can't fix stupid.

[DontTreadOnMe]

Punta Gorda police chief announces department changes in response to academy shooting

The shooting is still a sensitive subject at the police department. "I'm very sorry for the Knowlton Family, really. But I have a department to run. I have a lot of officers that need leadership and guidance," says Chief Tom Lewis.
Which is why he's paying no attention to any requests for him to resign.

Let's look at the guidance they're getting.

The first of the two changes would require all lethal weapons and ammunition be stored separate from less lethal weapons and ammunition.

Wow that's a great idea! I wonder why nobody else has considered storing weapons and ammunition to be used in civilian demonstrations (where weapons will be pointed at people and triggers pulled) separately from live rounds? This guy's a genius.

The second change bans the use of live firearms during scenario-based training exercises,

This actually makes sense. I mean, it should have been obvious before now but it's a smart change. Hey, why does that end with a comma instead of a period?

with noted exceptions as defined by the agency.

What's the exception? "In cases where we don't mind killing somebody"?

[schmieg]

Only Cops should own guns. Because they have special training. Big eyeroll.

Most officer training after the initial familiarization seems to be centered on annual qualification rather than gun handling and safety. I would submit my belief that 99% of the people on this forum and at least 75% of active NRA members have more training in gun safety and handling than most officers.

That is not an attack on the police. Many are safe and qualified, but that is not necessarily a result of the police training.