Man Shoots Up Church

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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby deanimator » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:57 pm

Tweed Ring wrote:Typically, individual attacks rarely get the job done on someone with a high profile.

They probably could if they just kept at it, over and over and over until somebody let his guard down.

The question is, do his potential executioners have a) the discipline, b) the patience, c) the motivation?

Who knows?

We'll find out.
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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby bignflnut » Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:56 pm

qmti wrote:Just another thought. Legislators allowed Churches/House of worship to be stripped out of HB48 (I believe this is the correct bill) as a no carry zone. I wonder if they are now re-thinking their cave-in on this issue.


That would require an active (not hardened / dead) conscience.
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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby JediSkipdogg » Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:06 pm

bignflnut wrote:
qmti wrote:Just another thought. Legislators allowed Churches/House of worship to be stripped out of HB48 (I believe this is the correct bill) as a no carry zone. I wonder if they are now re-thinking their cave-in on this issue.


That would require an active (not hardened / dead) conscience.


And also their theory for stripping it out is the church can still opt in if they desire instead of opting out. Really, it gets one the same in the end, my biggest issue is the opting in makes it a felony vs a misdemeanor if they opted out.
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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby Bama.45 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:38 pm

JediSkipdogg wrote:
bignflnut wrote:
qmti wrote:Just another thought. Legislators allowed Churches/House of worship to be stripped out of HB48 (I believe this is the correct bill) as a no carry zone. I wonder if they are now re-thinking their cave-in on this issue.


That would require an active (not hardened / dead) conscience.


And also their theory for stripping it out is the church can still opt in if they desire instead of opting out. Really, it gets one the same in the end, my biggest issue is the opting in makes it a felony vs a misdemeanor if they opted out.



Why couldn't the felony part be changed to a misdemeanor?
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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby JediSkipdogg » Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:49 pm

Bama.45 wrote:Why couldn't the felony part be changed to a misdemeanor?


Because they are all in the same section and they all have the same penalty. Sure, they could say 1-3 are felonies, 4 is a misdemeanor, and 5-8 are a felony, but they won't. For some reason they just won't touch churches. I don't know if there is some church group putting pressure on the legislature or not, but they seem to not really want to talk about.
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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby Bama.45 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:59 pm

It's a shame too... I don't know what SC's law is about church carry... I can't cant help but think if a LAC had been there carrying, it would have ended different.
"Lord, make my hand fast and accurate.
Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen




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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby JediSkipdogg » Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:06 pm

Bama.45 wrote:It's a shame too... I don't know what SC's law is about church carry... I can't cant help but think if a LAC had been there carrying, it would have ended different.


I believe prohibited by state law and they do not have an opt in provision.
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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby Werz » Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:44 pm

JediSkipdogg wrote:For some reason they just won't touch churches. I don't know if there is some church group putting pressure on the legislature or not, but they seem to not really want to talk about.

Perhaps the Ohio General Assembly should be reminded that the Ohio Constitution mandates that "no preference shall be given, by law, to any religious society[.]" Art. I, Sec. 7. Is there any reason that that a house of worship should not be subject to the requirement of posting notice under R.C. 2923.126(C)(3)(a), just like any other private entity? Is the current legal presumption under R.C. 2923.126(B)(6) not a preference given by law to a religious society?
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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby evan price » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:20 am

JediSkipdogg wrote:
Bama.45 wrote:It's a shame too... I don't know what SC's law is about church carry... I can't cant help but think if a LAC had been there carrying, it would have ended different.


I believe prohibited by state law and they do not have an opt in provision.

Prohibited by state law without specific authorization from the church specifically authorizing carry.

So it is totally unpossible that this could have happened, because it is illegal to carry the gun into the church in the first place. Case closed.
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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby Brian D. » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:44 am

Werz wrote:
JediSkipdogg wrote:For some reason they just won't touch churches. I don't know if there is some church group putting pressure on the legislature or not, but they seem to not really want to talk about.

Perhaps the Ohio General Assembly should be reminded that the Ohio Constitution mandates that "no preference shall be given, by law, to any religious society[.]" Art. I, Sec. 7. Is there any reason that that a house of worship should not be subject to the requirement of posting notice under R.C. 2923.126(C)(3)(a), just like any other private entity? Is the current legal presumption under R.C. 2923.126(B)(6) not a preference given by law to a religious society?


I recall the rhymin' revrun types from across the Buckeye showing up at statehouse hearings when CHL issuance was first being pondered by the legislature. Obviously the House and Senate kowtowed to them somewhat.

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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby djthomas » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:48 am

The Jewish federation or whatever they're called tend to come to the hearings and/or submit testimony fairly consistently against anything pro-2A whether it directly implicates religious operations or not.
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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby Klingon00 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:30 am

Some thoughts after listening to anti-gun people talk about this incident...

Some think that a war on guns will be somehow more effective than the war on drugs. How has that worked out, for black men especially? Some think that outlawing something has magical powers like a law of nature where everyone will suddenly be forced to obey and there will never be anyone able to break that law. Unfortunately for them, this incident in NC just blows that out of the water.

1. Churches are gun free zones, how'd that work out?

2. The murderer would not have passed any background check yet still got a gun illegally from his father. Even without a universal background check, it was still illegal for his father to give him the gun and his father will likely go to jail for a long time. A universal background check law still relies upon people to obey the law and would likely have not stopped this tragedy.

3. Murder is already illegal. It's already one of the most strictly punished laws on the books, would somehow making that even more illegal have prevented this?

Sometimes crazy people do crazy things. No law can prevent every tragedy. Even in our prisons, where just about every freedom is restricted, violence and murder occurs.
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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby bignflnut » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:51 am

21 y/o was on antidepressant suboxone.

Was given the weapon as a gift, by his dad...which means...Bueller, Bueller...no background check.

And he may not have passed a NICS check.

Federal law prohibits people with pending felony charges from obtaining firearms. In February, Roof was arrested and later charged with felony possession of Suboxone, a narcotic prescription drug. He was released, and the case is pending.


If prosecutors can show that the father knew about Roof’s indictment but gave him the gun anyway, Roof’s father could face up to 10 years in prison.
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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby Tweed Ring » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:05 am

This thug broke a number of laws. I have yet to read about any law/laws which would have precluded this tragedy. I have yet to read about any proposed law/laws which would pass Constitutional muster.
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Re: Man Shoots Up Church

Postby mrbone » Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:28 am

And if guns were banned and somehow the ban actually was effective, despite all history of such bans to the contrary, then perhaps we'd just see more things like the 16th Street Baptist Church incident, which you may recall did not involve firearms at all. In other words, it's futile kabuki theater. But you all knew that!
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