From Mayberry to Martial Law:

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soberbiker
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Re: From Mayberry to Martial Law:

Post by soberbiker »

The problem is not typically the high ranking military brass but the elected officials. They keep saying they have enough equipment but the politicians keep ordering more because they don't want to be the one that closed the tank factory. And as spread out as these companies are they are almost assured to never go out of business as long as there are elected officials in charge of keeping them building stuff.
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Re: From Mayberry to Martial Law:

Post by bignflnut »

But some agencies have found the process of getting rid of unwanted military gear next to impossible. Agencies can't return or trade equipment without Defense Department approval, and because the Pentagon technically still owns the equipment, they can't sell it.

According to interviews with state officials running point between the Pentagon and police, the Defense Department prefers to leave equipment in circulation whenever possible. "It's a low-cost storage method for them," says Robb Davis, the mayor pro tem of Davis. His town is trying to shake its MRAP. "They're dumping these vehicles on us and saying, 'Hey, these are still ours, but you have to maintain them for us.'"

Police departments, in most cases, bear the costs of shipping the equipment to its new home. Making things more difficult, as the Defense Department reevaluates the program this fall, the agency temporarily closed the portion of its website that allows police departments to request returns. (The website will reopen on October 1.)

In reality, however, police departments may find the returns process slow, mystifying, or nonfunctional. Online law enforcement message boards brim with complaints that the Pentagon refuses to take back unwanted guns and vehicles...

But officials in Davis are finding that the cheapest way to unload the armored vehicle may be to ship it to a police department in a neighboring town. At best, says Davis, the Defense Department will ask the city to ship the vehicle to a police department out of state. "The bottom line is, if we send it back, we know what will happen to it. It will go on to be used in another community," Davis says. "In the broader scheme of things, we will not have done anything but make a symbolic gesture."
If possession is 99% of the law...I'd sell it.
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Re: From Mayberry to Martial Law:

Post by glocksmith »

If one was in a tin-foil hat sort of mood, one could suggest that maybe this distribution of surplus gear across the country (and esepcially into rural areas) was a technique for caching stuff to be retrieved and used at a later date if necessary.
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Re: From Mayberry to Martial Law:

Post by glocksmith »

Here's the latest Mayberry - a scenario which I think we will see more and more of as time goes on - and the froggie is finally boiling. One wonders if a grumpy old man with a messy yard warrants 24 officers and an armored vehicle?

24 sheriff's deputies for the town of Stettin, Wisconsin showed up at the door of 75-year-old Roger Hoeppner to execute a court judgment and seize $86,000 worth of equipment from Hoeppner's property. When Hoeppner refused to open the door, the Marathon County sheriffs department drove up its heavily armored BearCat vehicle; that brought Hoeppner out...

http://theweek.com/article/index/270753 ... an-old-man
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Re: From Mayberry to Martial Law:

Post by JustJack »

Image
IANAL, YMMV, other standard disclaimers, yada, yada, yada, etc, ad nauseum, in infinitum.
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Re: From Mayberry to Martial Law:

Post by bignflnut »

Articles about this equipment must briefly address the views of people who think these tools are inappropriate for law enforcement utilization. Here are three things to consider:

1. Better-equipped and trained police are a better asset to protect and serve their communities.
2. In some quarters, violent anti-government groups and individuals are targeting cops as scapegoats.
3. There has been a steady increase in deadly and violent assaults on cops — as well as acts of domestic and international terrorism — many of which are reported in limited scope or not publicly known.
Anti-gov groups and individuals?

OFFICER SAFETY UBER ALLES
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: From Mayberry to Martial Law:

Post by bignflnut »

Not everyone abuses this program, but those that do, do so spectacularly. An 11-member police force for a Delaware town with 400 residents has availed itself of more than $3 million in 1033 gear over the last five years.

SNIP

This includes a mine-resistant armored car and an armored Humvee -- all to oversee 400 people residing in a one-mile, two-block stretch. The justifications for even the more innocuous acquisitions are questionable, if not downright laughable. As the Beacon points out, the Dewey PD requested boats for water rescues, something already handled by a separate beach patrol and the Coast Guard. ATVs were supposedly handed to the department for something termed "homeland security patrols."

Many items were obtained to support the PD's private shooting range, including multiple tractors to shore up backstop berms and parkas to wear on colder days. The location of the range is kept secret by the department and the town was not (knowingly) involved in financing its construction. This secret range is mentioned more than 50 times in the PD's 1033 requests.

Despite this news surfacing last November, town commissioners have yet to receive any answers from the department it apparently can't oversee.

At their Feb. 10 meeting, Commissioner Gary Persinger lamented, “We’re three months down the road and we don’t have information in response to that request.”

As of March 1, [Mayor T.J.] Redefer said had not yet been privy to the departmental justifications of need.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: From Mayberry to Martial Law:

Post by Javelin Man »

Time to stop funding for said police department.
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Re: From Mayberry to Martial Law:

Post by bignflnut »

How does a 400 person town have an 11 member police force?
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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djthomas
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Re: From Mayberry to Martial Law:

Post by djthomas »

bignflnut wrote:How does a 400 person town have an 11 member police force?
New Rome, Ohio had 14 officers protecting 60 residents.
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Re: From Mayberry to Martial Law:

Post by bignflnut »

As of the census of 2000, there were 60 people, 27 households, and 14 families residing in the village.

That's one cop per family and one per 2 households! Yahoooooooo!
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908

Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.

"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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deanimator
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Re: From Mayberry to Martial Law:

Post by deanimator »

If the Broward County Sheriff's Department had had a Tiger tank, they would just have hid in it until the shooting stopped.
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Re: From Mayberry to Martial Law:

Post by M-Quigley »

bignflnut wrote:How does a 400 person town have an 11 member police force?
They might not all be paid officers. A town near where I currently live used to have (a long time ago) 15 reserve officers for an area of only a couple hundred residents. Coincedentally there was a state highway running through the town, and they had a mayors court. :roll:
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