Nice Thief For Once...Kinda

[Rhino]

^Common sense, huh.

Anymore I don't think common sense is...well..all that common.

Sometimes I wonder if it ever was.

[Mrs. Daspirate]

The exact argument antigunners use against us. Also the justification used for mandatory storage laws. Guns on my property are not a danger to the public, even when they are loaded, unlocked, and unattended. And the day when we allow that definition to apply is the day when we allow them to come and take our guns away. Could someone go into your car and access a loaded and unsecure gun? Yes, they could. Could they do the same thing in your house? Yes, if you're like millions of other gun owners, they could. Declaring that a danger to the public just made millions of gun owners a danger to the public. You have to be careful how you apply such phrases. Though well intentioned, they can often have impact far beyond what you intended.

Yes, even if a kid has to trespass on my land to steal my gun, if it's that easy for them to get it, I've done something wrong - regardless of whether they are also in the wrong. My guns in my house ARE locked up because my front door is locked if no one is home - precisely because we have things in the house that we know could be dangerous. I have no problem whatsoever with a loaded gun in a car, even if it's not in a lockbox - I do it all the time. But the doors better be locked unless someone is in the car with that gun. Guns require at least some minimal amount of supervision by the owner - I'm not going to leave my loaded gun out in my front yard for anyone to pick up, even if it IS my own property and they'd have to technically trespass to pick it up. You could make a case for it being legal, but it's sure as heck not safe.

That's your opinion. Luckily for the rest of us, the 2nd amendment trumps it. Locked up guns are useless guns. And the locks on your car or house are not some invincible force field. They're incredibly easy to circumvent. They don't make your guns any safer.

Unattended, loaded guns with no barriers at all are more dangerous to the public at large than those with a responsible eye on them. Just because the public makes rampant leaps in logic does not make that in any way untrue.

[Mrs. Daspirate]

You are also misunderstanding that something can be supremely stupid, and be called such, without any intention of claiming laws need to be made against it. Yes, there are people who do make such claims based on words similar to what I said. But their thoughts and actions, which are wrong, do not invalidate my opinion that this particular gun owner was completely irresponsible and created a situation that had the potential to end very badly. NO, it is not illegal for him to do. YES, it is incredibly, ridiculously stupid. Refer to previous example about how I won't leave my loaded gun lying in my front yard while I go on vacation, regardless of how legal it is. Just like wearing seatbelts in cars (which is a stupid law), safety should never be legislated, but you're still an idiot if you don't take the minor precautions available to you with a minimum amount of effort.

[Rhino]

I wouldn't leave one lying in my front yard either, but we weren't talking about that. I don't personally leave guns in my vehicles, locked or unlocked. But declaring a gun inside your property, be it home or vehicle, that someone else has to illegally open to access, as a danger to society, holds legal ramifications that threaten our second amendment rights. I would never leave a gun in my unlocked vehicle, but to find fault with a gun owner because someone illegally entered his vehicle, stole his gun and used it in a crime is wrong minded in my opinion. And to declare that gun owner or his actions as a danger to society is wrong on every level. Stupid, quite possibly. Maybe even on several levels. But the danger to society is the person who breaks the law by illegally entering and stealing the gun. People's opinions of "safe" vary widely, as we are all well aware. What is safe to you or I is not necessarily going to be the same for someone else. What happens if someday someone decides those locked doors are no longer meeting their definition of "safe"? Now when someone steals a gun from a locked car or home, maybe even yours, there's a new class of gun owners to prosecute as dangers to society. Besides being wrong, blaming the victim of those crimes serves absolutely no purpose. It is the thief who steals the gun that is the danger to society. Your blame is pointed in the wrong direction.

[JediSkipdogg]

Well said Rhino. Next someone will say it's the car owner's fault for buying a Porsche and parking it in their driveway as that makes it more likely to be stolen. Or a homeowner responsible for a burglary because their TV was viewable through a window from the sidewalk and that made a thief target their house.

[Mrs. Daspirate]

Well said Rhino. Next someone will say it's the car owner's fault for buying a Porsche and parking it in their driveway as that makes it more likely to be stolen. Or a homeowner responsible for a burglary because their TV was viewable through a window from the sidewalk and that made a thief target their house.

If said porsche owner HAS a lockable, covered garage to store said vehicle in, yes, he may or may not be labelled a bit of a moron in my own personal opinion if he then chooses to NOT park his car in that garage and parks instead in the driveway or on the street. AT NO POINT did I such thing should be illegal, or that he should held liable for his own stupid actions. I AGREE that a thief is a thief is a thief and should be charged as one. My first comment about the thief in the story was more a comment on how similar his actions were to what some police officers do - however, it's illegal for him to do, but apparently not for them. Perhaps I actually have to spell this out. CHARGE HIM for theft, geez. But it doesn't make the guy any less an idiot IN MY OPINION for leaving a loaded gun in an unlocked, unattended car.

I get that you guys disagree about whether or not that was inherently dangerous situation. I happen to believe it was, whatever. Disagreement is one thing. I really don't understand why I'm suddenly now advocating for a restriction of gun rights because I think what one particular guy did was dumb.

[curmudgeon3]

Anymore I don't think common sense is...well..all that common.

Sometimes I wonder if it ever was.

Old cliches aside, "common sense" is alive and well. For instance: take a look at what has happened to violent crime statistics state by state, since the Individual RKBA Freedoms have proliferated in recent years; wouldn't you agree that it appears the predators are regaining their use of common sense about this new re-distribution of the wealth philosophy.

[Rhino]

Well said Rhino. Next someone will say it's the car owner's fault for buying a Porsche and parking it in their driveway as that makes it more likely to be stolen. Or a homeowner responsible for a burglary because their TV was viewable through a window from the sidewalk and that made a thief target their house.

If said porsche owner HAS a lockable, covered garage to store said vehicle in, yes, he may or may not be labelled a bit of a moron in my own personal opinion if he then chooses to NOT park his car in that garage and parks instead in the driveway or on the street.

Because the object of desire was left in the open instead of locked away. Right. So then a woman in a sexy dress who gets raped was a bit of a moron because she had more modest clothes at home that she could have worn. Yeah, I get your principle. I just don't agree with it. I think the criminals should be the ones at fault instead of the victims.