More info on Zimmerman case released

[evan price]

TM being scared reacted the way any inner city teen would, fight back.

For TM to Fight Back implies that GZ had started a fight with TM. Again, you are drawing assumptions out of thin air.

And for somebody with a cell phone in hand, when some strange person is following you, perhaps calling the cops would have been the better thing to do when being followed?

[Daeyel]

The problem is, catfish, you are ascribing emotion to Martin. You are claiming Martin was afraid, or may have been afraid.

There is nothing illegal about making someone afraid in this situation. It is about as illegal as an openly carried firearm making someone else afraid. Were we to agree with you that Martin was justified in any way to act against Zimm, then we would also have to agree to cover our firearms whenever someone was afraid, or suffer the consequences. Is this a world you wish to live in, where we must appease everyone and anyone's fears, lest they justifiably react?

The whole point is, Zimmerman did NOTHING wrong. You can follow a person all day long if you want. They can be afraid, they can run, thy can hide, they can call the police, but as long as you are in public space, you have that right. They do NOT have the right to retaliate against you physically. They can challenge you, or call the police, but about the most they can do is file a harassment charge against you. even that would not stick. Any judge would tell the party that you are allowed to do this. Obnoxious, yes. Antisocial, yes, but illegal? Never.
George Zimmermann had every right to follow Trayvon Martin all the way up to his doorstep if he wished. In fact, on this board, aware as we are of crime statistics, we would call it 'Being a good witness.' Do not let any claims by the dispatcher fool you. No, Zimmerman did 'not need to do that'. But the dispatcher is attempting to avoid exactly what happened - a confrontation. The dispatcher is not giving legal advice concerning the legality of actions.
Again, George Zimmermann did absolutely nothing illegal or wrong, in following Trayvon Martin.

Now that we have established that Zimmermann was in the clear, any fear or embarrassment on the part of Trayvon Martin, while it might be understandable, is NOT actionable with physicality! He can challenge Zimmermann verbally, and ask him what he is following him for. He can run home, or hide in the bushes, or call 911. But under no circumstances can he assault Zimmerman.

Remember, the burden of proof is on the prosecution. They have to PROVE Zimmermann was illegally following Martin. They cannot do that, so they will have to pound away at Zimmermann's story, try to show that he attacked Martin, rather than Martin attacked him. And the facts are piling up on Zimm's side, in the form of the injuries to each party, witnesses statements, etc. All Zimmermann has to do is get an impartial jury (NO easy task) tell his story to the jury over and over, and then change his name, get plastic surgery and create a new life somewhere else after he owns NBC.

You, however, seem to posit that Trayvon Martin is justified in attacking Zimm because Zimm freaked him out or otherwise scared him by following him.
Think long and hard about whether you want to permit others to respond likewise to you after you freak them out when they inadvertently see your firearm.

[Klingon00]

Not this again... why do I feel like this is the logical version of "whack a mole"? Bring up point 1, knock it down. Bring up point 3, knock it down, bring up point 2, knock it down, bring up point 1 again as if nothing was said about it, wash and repeat...

[catfish86]

The problem is, catfish, you are ascribing emotion to Martin. You are claiming Martin was afraid, or may have been afraid.

Humans have emotions. Trayvon Martin was a human.

And a CHL is not a badge empowering the holder to chase down criminals. Any CHL instructor will tell you that if you do so you do so at your own legal peril. We are seeing the fruit of that.

[Daeyel]

The problem is, catfish, you are ascribing emotion to Martin. You are claiming Martin was afraid, or may have been afraid.

Humans have emotions. Trayvon Martin was a human.

Keep reading. Or allow me to summarize for you:

There is nothing illegal about making someone afraid in this situation. Any fear or embarrassment on the part of Trayvon Martin, while it might be understandable, is NOT actionable with physicality!

[evan price]

Humans have emotions. Trayvon Martin was a human.

So what difference does that make?
If he was afraid (as you claim) then why didn't he hang up with his girlfriend and call the police himself?

[catfish86]

The problem is, catfish, you are ascribing emotion to Martin. You are claiming Martin was afraid, or may have been afraid.

Humans have emotions. Trayvon Martin was a human.

Keep reading. Or allow me to summarize for you:

There is nothing illegal about making someone afraid in this situation. Any fear or embarrassment on the part of Trayvon Martin, while it might be understandable, is NOT actionable with physicality!

As to TM not being justified if approached by someone in this manner, remember he is 17. I know my kids were given classes on stranger danger such as that in the below link. This is taught to most kids in most schools from a very early age.

http://www.surfnetkids.com/go/safety/39 ... er-danger/

If your child is approached by a stranger:

1. Do not talk to them
2. Run to a parent or their caregiver
3. If they are grabbed, teach them to yell, bite and kick
4. They need to know your phone number, address, and how to call 911 in case they are taken

TM ran which is number 2. What does number three say? TM did what every kid is taught to do (except calling 911). But to suggest TM is some thug or had no right or cause to hit a stranger who followed him in a pickup truck then got out and followed when he ran is to ignore what every kid is taught in school.

[Klingon00]

So Catfish, are you saying you are somehow omniscient and know for a fact what Martin was thinking/feeling just like you seem to know that Zimmerman must have acted illegally despite the evidence (or lack thereof)? Now you know for a fact that Martin also attended stranger danger and that is somehow relevant to the discussion how?! Wow talk about leaps of logic...

[Morne]

For some reason, the case is not being thrown out as a joke.

...and that reason is called racial politics advanced by a certain segment that wants to demonize all gun owners and talk about anything but the economy.

I don't want TM or GZ on the cover of the paper. I do not profit from fomenting distrust, fear and hatred (I'll leave it to the reader to go back to Star Wars and try to infer from Yoda's sayings which side of the force this rests upon) between racial groups. Those who do are the ones who can't let go here.

[Daeyel]

As to TM not being justified if approached by someone in this manner, remember he is 17.

Are you excusing his actions?

[catfish86]

So Catfish, are you saying you are somehow omniscient and know for a fact what Martin was thinking/feeling just like you seem to know that Zimmerman must have acted illegally despite the evidence (or lack thereof)? Now you know for a fact that Martin also attended stranger danger and that is somehow relevant to the discussion how?! Wow talk about leaps of logic...

How many school districts do you know of that DON'T teach stranger danger? I don't know about you, but I am not telling my children to wait until they are tied up in the back of the pickup truck to start considering physical resistance. I personally know what happens once that is accomplished and it is not pretty. To accept what you are saying, every kid in America is being taught the wrong thing.

[evan price]

Stranger danger?

OK.. I think we've chewed all the meat off the bones of this one.
So, like all the previous Zimmerman/Martin threads, this one's done.
Anything new comes out, well, we'll do this all over again.