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The following states do not allow for the general purchase of stun guns. To own a stun gun in these states, you will need the same type of license as you would for a regular firearm:
Illinois, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Wisconsin.
Seems some already treated them as lethal weapons. Interesting.
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
It was my understanding that tasers are considered less-lethal, not non-lethal. It was also my understanding that's how law enforcement is trained, but not necessarily how the tasers are being used.
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
- Thomas Paine
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."
AndMetal wrote:It was my understanding that tasers are considered less-lethal, not non-lethal. It was also my understanding that's how law enforcement is trained, but not necessarily how the tasers are being used.
ASP batons are higher on our use of force continuum than Tasers. Why? Far more people die or are seriously injured from errant baton strikes than Taser strikes.
To Bruenor's point no matter what is used the bad guy is never happy and there's always going to be professional apologists ready to cry brutality. We could always go back to the 60's and 70's where all the cops had at their disposal was a gun and a baton. With options like that somebody is getting hurt nearly every time.
djthomas wrote:With options like that somebody is getting hurt nearly every time.
If we weren't as sue happy as we are today I would say what's wrong with that? Justice worked back then. How did the mob stop people from stealing from a casino? They took them out back and beat them. And guess what, it was 100% effective. Today, jail is free health care, free room, free board, free internet, free tv, free fun. So where's the punishment?
I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
djthomas wrote:With options like that somebody is getting hurt nearly every time.
If we weren't as sue happy as we are today I would say what's wrong with that? Justice worked back then. How did the mob stop people from stealing from a casino? They took them out back and beat them. And guess what, it was 100% effective. Today, jail is free health care, free room, free board, free internet, free tv, free fun. So where's the punishment?
How's about the permanent problem of employment after jail. Some of the people on this board joke about being "bubba's new friend", and I would find that to be punishment (on top of being assault anyhow).
“It’s not that we don’t have enough scoundrels to curse; it’s that we don’t have enough good men to curse them.”–G.K. Chesterton-Illustrated London News, 3-14-1908
Republicans.Hate.You. See2020.
"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
A trained, competent, confident LEO wielding a defensive baton can defend himself from blows, kicks and bludgeon-type attacks; can restrain a resisting individual; and can apply jabbing, striking and/or spinning techniques to defend himself from one or more attackers.
I think the baton offers more than the electric device, but I am prejudiced towards the baton.
Tweed Ring wrote:A trained, competent, confident LEO wielding a defensive baton can defend himself from blows, kicks and bludgeon-type attacks; can restrain a resisting individual; and can apply jabbing, striking and/or spinning techniques to defend himself from one or more attackers.
The good old PR-24 has all but been put out to pasture ... at least around here. ASPs are really limited to strikes. There are some restraint techniques but they're technically complex because if not done correctly you run the risk of collapsing the baton. Jabs and spins are pretty much out.
They do make expandable batons that lock open until released with a button as opposed to friction lock but unfortunately those are not on our approved carry list.
Back in the day, that is way before my time, uniform pants used to have a little pocket at the four or seven o'clock position designed to hold a blackjack. With practice an officer could have it out and make contact with the suspect before the guy even saw it coming.
I have taught instructors and students in both PR-24, as well as straight baton. I agree that an expandable baton, either side-handle or straight, if not well-made, may collapse under strain. There are inferior products on the market. Conversely, my expandable batons are all well-made in New Hampshire, and I can use them with the utmost confidence in applying a number of restraining, as well as striking, techniques.
Every decade, we re-invent the wheel.
Recently, there was a photograph in one of the New York newspapers, showing a NYPD white-shirt winding up his PR-24 to deliver a spin-strike to one of the obstreperous New York City Occupier crowd. What he obviously lacked in strict baton technique, he clearly made up for with his vigor. Made me feel warm inside.
Tweed Ring wrote:Recently, there was a photograph in one of the New York newspapers, showing a NYPD white-shirt winding up his PR-24 to deliver a spin-strike to one of the obstreperous New York City Occupier crowd. What he obviously lacked in strict baton technique, he clearly made up for with his vigor. Made me feel warm inside.
I bet you're thinking of this one:
-- Someone edited my signature and deleted my posts, and all I got was... this edited signature.
Yes, the stance is too wide, so there's a chance he could lose his balance. His weak side foot is off the ground, leaving him somewhat vulnerable if the spin-strike is not effective. The side handle is clearly not perpendicular to the ground. He's winding up like he wants to pitch a baseball.
Having said the above, from an Instructor-Trainer standpoint, I was pleased to see the side-handle baton being utilized in a one-on-one tactical situation. Nice to see a supervisor getting out of the house and into the field, as well.
Single opponents are fine, but multiple opponents are boatloads of fun.
Well from one that sits in a courtroom on a daily basis. Not armed. I would opt for a taser any day. If you don't CT stupid then there is no use for it. You act stupid then it would come out. Just my two cents.
Law Enforcement was created to respond after the fact, that's why I have my CCW I can be peaceful, but I can be violent when the time comes.
Jerry Springer show for free everyday in a courtroom
Today, jail is free health care, free room, free board, free internet, free tv, free fun. So where's the punishment?
