Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

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jose45
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by jose45 »

djthomas wrote:So let's see, it's barely 36 hours since the incident, the store is still closed, funeral arrangements haven't even begun to be contemplated yet and already the Plain Dealer runs a letter to the editor from an idiot. There's a lot of similarity between this letter and the heat Mike is feeling at OSU. Disagree with someone's message? Take away their right to exist. Facts don't fit the situation? Make them up and scream all the same.

I mean seriously, the blood was probably still wet when this guy sent his letter in since it was published so quickly. On the one hand I'm tempted to write a letter in response but on the other there's so many issues with what the guy's saying I don't know that I want to dignify it with a response.
You read lots of stupid letters to the editor in the PD.But you're right,this one rates right up there.
He says the first thing we need to do is get rid of the NRA.Well,good luck with that. :shock:
"Lord, make me fast and accurate.Let my aim be true and my hand faster than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those that wish to do harm to me and mine.Let not my last thought be "If I only had my gun"
And Lord,if today is truly the day that you call me home.Let Me Die In A Pile of Hot Empty Brass.- Patriots Prayer- III% NRA,OFCC
GatorNavy
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by GatorNavy »

jose45 wrote:
djthomas wrote:So let's see, it's barely 36 hours since the incident, the store is still closed, funeral arrangements haven't even begun to be contemplated yet and already the Plain Dealer runs a letter to the editor from an idiot. There's a lot of similarity between this letter and the heat Mike is feeling at OSU. Disagree with someone's message? Take away their right to exist. Facts don't fit the situation? Make them up and scream all the same.

I mean seriously, the blood was probably still wet when this guy sent his letter in since it was published so quickly. On the one hand I'm tempted to write a letter in response but on the other there's so many issues with what the guy's saying I don't know that I want to dignify it with a response.
You read lots of stupid letters to the editor in the PD.But you're right,this one rates right up there.
He says the first thing we need to do is get rid of the NRA.Well,good luck with that. :shock:

That PETA girl that hired a hitman on Facebook probably wrote this letter, or one of her relatives
Come and get'em
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deanimator
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by deanimator »

jose45 wrote:I wasn't refering to the LE reaction or response time.I think both the responding officers and the 911 operator did the best that could be done in the time frame they had.I was just feeling the helplessness that mother must have been feeling at the time.Being on the phone with 911 but suddenly realising no matter how close help is it's not close enough to make a difference.When you're inside with someone pointing a shotgun at you it isn't gonna help that the cops are right outside in the parking lot.A stranger is bad enough but the sheer horror of it being a loved one,I just can't imagine.
My point is that every adult SHOULD know that police "protection" of individuals is nothing but a childish fantasy. It almost never happens because it almost never CAN happen.

I have every reason to believe that woman relied on a pernicious myth, to the great detriment of her and her children.

Had she been lawfully armed, she would have had a chance. Unarmed, she had NO chance, and neither did her children.

The bystanders were only lucky that the murderer was fixated on his family as victims and apparently wasn't committed to killing as many people in general as possible.

This case is an object lesson in why concealed carry is SO important.
Life comes at you fast. Be prepared to shoot it in the head when it does.
jose45
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by jose45 »

deanimator wrote:
jose45 wrote:I wasn't refering to the LE reaction or response time.I think both the responding officers and the 911 operator did the best that could be done in the time frame they had.I was just feeling the helplessness that mother must have been feeling at the time.Being on the phone with 911 but suddenly realising no matter how close help is it's not close enough to make a difference.When you're inside with someone pointing a shotgun at you it isn't gonna help that the cops are right outside in the parking lot.A stranger is bad enough but the sheer horror of it being a loved one,I just can't imagine.
My point is that every adult SHOULD know that police "protection" of individuals is nothing but a childish fantasy. It almost never happens because it almost never CAN happen.

I have every reason to believe that woman relied on a pernicious myth, to the great detriment of her and her children.

Had she been lawfully armed, she would have had a chance. Unarmed, she had NO chance, and neither did her children.

The bystanders were only lucky that the murderer was fixated on his family as victims and apparently wasn't committed to killing as many people in general as possible.

This case is an object lesson in why concealed carry is SO important.
Couldn't agree more.
"Lord, make me fast and accurate.Let my aim be true and my hand faster than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those that wish to do harm to me and mine.Let not my last thought be "If I only had my gun"
And Lord,if today is truly the day that you call me home.Let Me Die In A Pile of Hot Empty Brass.- Patriots Prayer- III% NRA,OFCC
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gmhiggins
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by gmhiggins »

deanimator wrote:Had she been lawfully armed, she would have had a chance. Unarmed, she had NO chance, and neither did her children
Possibly. According to the store manager of this Cracker Barrel 6 months ago, they do not allow guns on the premises.
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Tourist
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by Tourist »

gmhiggins,

Unfortunately, I think you were misinformed. The Cracker Barrel is not posted. They allow concealed carry. What they are not comfortable with is open carry. While I disagree with their position on open carry, the mother could certainly have had a concealed weapon (if licensed of course).
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muxtech
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by muxtech »

The wife was an ideal applicant for a temporary emergency license. Too bad she did not avail herself of this option prior to announcing her attentions to leave her violence-prone husband. Carrying illegally would have been preferable to being murdered. A women's shelter would have been preferable to the CB gift shop for safety. It's a shame she didn't take more precautions that might have saved them.
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dan dan the XD40 man
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by dan dan the XD40 man »

Tourist wrote:gmhiggins,

Unfortunately, I think you were misinformed. The Cracker Barrel is not posted. They allow concealed carry. What they are not comfortable with is open carry. While I disagree with their position on open carry, the mother could certainly have had a concealed weapon (if licensed of course).
From the Cleveland area holiday eat and greet thread:
pirateguy191 wrote:I just got off the phone with the general manager and I posed the question about CC vs. OC. According to her, Cracker Barrel's policy is "no guns on the premises, but if we don't see it, it's ok". I'm really confused here. I told her that we had a gathering there two years ago, and we didn't have any issues. To that she replied, " we probably didn't see it, so it was ok".

With this only being a week away, I think it's too late to find another venue, so I guess we just make sure that we stay concealed. I have been there several times and have never seen any signs and I didn't really want to push the issue. So, if everyone is ok with keeping them concealed, I guess we're ready to roll.
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deanimator
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by deanimator »

muxtech wrote:The wife was an ideal applicant for a temporary emergency license.
I was thinking precisely the same thing.

I wonder what prevented her from doing so.

Ignorance of such a provision in the law?

An unwillingness to believe that her already demonstrated violent husband was capable of this level of violence?

An unwillingness to use deadly force to protect herself and her children?

A mistaken belief that the police would or even could protect her and her children as individuals?

Perhaps this incident will have an effect on public perception similar to that of the 9/11 hijackings. The idea, "Go along and you'll be fine" has been thoroughly discredited. On 09/12/2001 there were a lot fewer people who believed that you could trust in the decency and veracity of hijackers. The same attitude change needs to happen regarding domestic abusers and armed robbers. The slaughter of the family of the doctor in Connecticut has gone some way in achieving that vis a vis the latter.
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dan dan the XD40 man
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by dan dan the XD40 man »

Off topic:

I was on facebook and a friend of a friend posted a picture of a restraining order with the caption "protecting myself".

I made a comment that if she really wanted to protect herself she would buy a 9mm handgun and learn how to use it. I never got a response.
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deanimator
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by deanimator »

dan dan the XD40 man wrote:Off topic:

I was on facebook and a friend of a friend posted a picture of a restraining order with the caption "protecting myself".

I made a comment that if she really wanted to protect herself she would buy a 9mm handgun and learn how to use it. I never got a response.
A restraining order by itself is no more "protection" than the front page of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. It won't stop a punch, much less a knife or a bullet.

It's not "protection". It's legal cover for protecting YOURSELF, preferably with a firearm.

Unfortunately, some people have trouble understanding that.

Of course, maybe she just preferred a .45 and thought your suggestion demeaning... :mrgreen:
Life comes at you fast. Be prepared to shoot it in the head when it does.
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pirateguy191
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by pirateguy191 »

deanimator wrote:
dan dan the XD40 man wrote:Off topic:

I was on facebook and a friend of a friend posted a picture of a restraining order with the caption "protecting myself".

I made a comment that if she really wanted to protect herself she would buy a 9mm handgun and learn how to use it. I never got a response.

Of course, maybe she just preferred a .45 and thought your suggestion demeaning... :mrgreen:
Maybe Dan just has a 9mm he's trying to unload. :wink:
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XDSC9G30
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by XDSC9G30 »

dan dan the XD40 man wrote:
Tourist wrote:gmhiggins,

Unfortunately, I think you were misinformed. The Cracker Barrel is not posted. They allow concealed carry. What they are not comfortable with is open carry. While I disagree with their position on open carry, the mother could certainly have had a concealed weapon (if licensed of course).
From the Cleveland area holiday eat and greet thread:
pirateguy191 wrote:I just got off the phone with the general manager and I posed the question about CC vs. OC. According to her, Cracker Barrel's policy is "no guns on the premises, but if we don't see it, it's ok". I'm really confused here. I told her that we had a gathering there two years ago, and we didn't have any issues. To that she replied, " we probably didn't see it, so it was ok".

With this only being a week away, I think it's too late to find another venue, so I guess we just make sure that we stay concealed. I have been there several times and have never seen any signs and I didn't really want to push the issue. So, if everyone is ok with keeping them concealed, I guess we're ready to roll.
Maybe it is simply that particular Cracker Barrel. There is nothing anywhere in the handbook addressing fireams other than for employees.

There are no GB signs at Cracker Barrel.
Tweed Ring
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by Tweed Ring »

Congressman Barney Frank, (D-MA) who is no friend of the 2nd. Amendment community, has stated that the National Rifle Association is the most effective grass-roots organization on the Hill. I doubt they are going to go away just because some nimrod wrote a negative letter to the Plain Dealer.
garyb
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Re: Reactions to Brooklyn OH Shooting April 12

Post by garyb »

I would have gave almost antyhing to have one of us in that store. My thoughts are with the family now.
Gary
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