Off duty cop pulls gun on pregnant women in walmart

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deanimator
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Re: Off duty cop pulls gun on pregnant women in walmart

Post by deanimator »

FormerNavy wrote:
carmen fovozzo wrote:..Even if the LEO was pushed and had a right to tell her she was in the wrong line he should of called security, not draw his weapon..dumb imo

I would think being pushed would call more for the deployment of a taser or mace... not drawing a gun. However, I would still fault the two idiots in the checkout line, if the story is accurate.

Of course, I wonder what local PD's reaction would be if I pulled my gun on someone in Wal Mart after being pushed... if it's good enough for LEO to protect themselves, it should be good enough for me... but I doubt the outcome would be the same.
Recall the Patrick Dorismond case in NYC.

Patrick Dorismond's standing at a bus stop minding his own business and a stranger walks up to him and tries to buy drugs. Dorismond tells him he doesn't have any drugs and to get lost. The guy persists. Dorismond tells the guy to take a hike and stop bothering him. The guy STILL persists, aggressively trying to buy drugs. Dorismond hits or pushes the guy... who shoots him to death. The wouldbe buyer turns out to be a plain clothes NYPD cop. The shooting is of course ruled "justified".

All too often, the police are allowed to create self-generated "crises" out of thin air then "solve" them with deadly force.
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Re: Off duty cop pulls gun on pregnant women in walmart

Post by carmen fovozzo »

FormerNavy wrote:
carmen fovozzo wrote:..Even if the LEO was pushed and had a right to tell her she was in the wrong line he should of called security, not draw his weapon..dumb imo

I would think being pushed would call more for the deployment of a taser or mace... not drawing a gun. However, I would still fault the two idiots in the checkout line, if the story is accurate.

Of course, I wonder what local PD's reaction would be if I pulled my gun on someone in Wal Mart after being pushed... if it's good enough for LEO to protect themselves, it should be good enough for me... but I doubt the outcome would be the same.
Exactly...
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BlueMR2
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Re: Off duty cop pulls gun on pregnant women in walmart

Post by BlueMR2 »

deanimator wrote: Patrick Dorismond's standing at a bus stop minding his own business and a stranger walks up to him and tries to buy drugs. Dorismond tells him he doesn't have any drugs and to get lost. The guy persists. Dorismond tells the guy to take a hike and stop bothering him. The guy STILL persists, aggressively trying to buy drugs. Dorismond hits or pushes the guy... who shoots him to death. The wouldbe buyer turns out to be a plain clothes NYPD cop. The shooting is of course ruled "justified".
Well, yeah, you're not allowed to push/hit anyone ever for that reason. As hard as it is, you just need to ignore/walk away from verbal assaults. Not legal for citizens to escalate situations, other than response to direct threat of bodily harm. Mr. Dorismond failed at that.

Pregnant lady's man failed at that part too, but was lucky enough to NOT get shot. Would be real interesting to get the whole story on this. Unfortunately, the cop is most likely forced to be quiet due to legal issues, whereas the citizens get to broadcast their side to the whole world. Could be psycho cop going off on scared lady. Or, could be obnoxious rule-breaking lady is offended for being scolded for disobeying rules, followed by having her man assault the officer who was then forced to draw his weapon for defense, and now pregnant lady is just trying for a payday now. Likely the truth is somewhere in the middle...
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Re: Off duty cop pulls gun on pregnant women in walmart

Post by GhostOfJefferson »

djthomas wrote:In other news, my department just revised its policies concerning off duty carry in liquor establishments. Without quoting word for word, the new policy basically says that notice is hereby given that the exemption provided in 2923.121 (B)(1)(b) does not apply to any officer who does not also meet the exemption under (B)(1)(e) with the exception of having a license.

In other words the chief feels that if Joe CHL can't have *a* beer with dinner then it's not right for his officers to be allowed to drink to their heart's content. As one can imagine it's caused some rumblings but he's a big believer that we aren't any more special than the people we work for. Maybe when he retires he could move out to Kendall county and clean house.
DJ, send your chief a kudos from me. The policy change you mention is exactly how the government/citizen relationship is supposed to work in a free nation, and I'm happy to hear that there are living, breathing examples of those granted special powers by the people, who still believe that they are part of, and have to answer to, the people. Well done to him!
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deanimator
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Re: Off duty cop pulls gun on pregnant women in walmart

Post by deanimator »

BlueMR2 wrote:Well, yeah, you're not allowed to push/hit anyone ever for that reason. As hard as it is, you just need to ignore/walk away from verbal assaults. Not legal for citizens to escalate situations, other than response to direct threat of bodily harm. Mr. Dorismond failed at that.
At the same time, I would consider it a BAD thing for cops to go about in plainclothes, aggressively soliciting criminal behavior to the point of provocation, then shooting the persons they provoked. I'm not sure what that is, but it's not law enforcement.

My point however was that police have been known to create violent incidents where none existed, then shoot their way out of the predicament THEY created.

I believe that the law says that I can't START an altercation then claim self-defense when it goes wrong. Why should a cop be able to?

Of course too, in the spirit of the Starbucks, pro-carry "buycott", I recall a female Chicago cop who pulled her gun and threatened an employee in a coffee shop when her demands for free goods were rebuffed. She MIGHT have been fired. To the best of knowledge, she wasn't prosecuted.
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