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I know this is kind of beating a dead horse as there's nothing going to do to stop it, but here's another case of the criminals becoming smart and acting like the ones sworn to protect us.
On Thursday, Cincinnati police said the two suspects posed as police officers, handcuffing the suspect and even putting a bag over his head during the crime.
Hopefully one day crimes like this will lead to the elimination of no-knock warrants. Wait, I doubt that.
I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
JediSkipdogg wrote:I know this is kind of beating a dead horse as there's nothing going to do to stop it, but here's another case of the criminals becoming smart and acting like the ones sworn to protect us.
On Thursday, Cincinnati police said the two suspects posed as police officers, handcuffing the suspect and even putting a bag over his head during the crime.
Hopefully one day crimes like this will lead to the elimination of no-knock warrants. Wait, I doubt that.
"Handcuffing the SUSPECT?" Huh? I think they must have meant "victim."
Chris
Crushing the First Amendment, one post at a time!
"If you walk out of your house carrying your gun (openly or otherwise) and you DO NOT fully understand the law, then you are NOT completely armed..."
I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
Actually some police forces will place a "bag" of sorts over a suspects head if he or she is spitting at officers. Though its not a bag in the common sense its more like a bee catchers mask or helmet that one can kind of see out of and can breath normally.
- OK. Jokes over. Bring back the Constitution.
- Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
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ohiophotog wrote:Actually some police forces will place a "bag" of sorts over a suspects head if he or she is spitting at officers. Though its not a bag in the common sense its more like a bee catchers mask or helmet that one can kind of see out of and can breath normally.
Yeah that's a spit hood. We've got em too. But like you said they have a screen mesh up top so the subject can still see. And its use is only brought on by the suspects own actions.
Didn't realise you were a servant of that persuaion. Otherwise I would have assumed you were aware of them. Who would of thought they would have such misleading names though? Spit hoods, what are these things for?
I'm surprised that entry officers on no knock warrents haven't been shot more often by occupents that are honestly trying to protect them selves, because who says in the split seconds after the door is breached that I am able to disguinsh between genuine officers or some well armed masked man intent on harm, since all their gear and badges and patches are readily available if you know where to look. Not that these misguided yutes didn't just knock on the door and proceed from there.
- OK. Jokes over. Bring back the Constitution.
- Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
- No trees were harmed during the transmission of this message, however a ton of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.
ohiophotog wrote:Didn't realise you were a servant of that persuaion. Otherwise I would have assumed you were aware of them. Who would of thought they would have such misleading names though? Spit hoods, what are these things for?
I'm surprised that entry officers on no knock warrents haven't been shot more often by occupents that are honestly trying to protect them selves, because who says in the split seconds after the door is breached that I am able to disguinsh between genuine officers or some well armed masked man intent on harm, since all their gear and badges and patches are readily available if you know where to look. Not that these misguided yutes didn't just knock on the door and proceed from there.
The courts have ruled that the police are pretty much always justified- even if it is the wrong address. Officer safety overrules homeowner safety at all times and in any situation. Besides, guys with black coats yelling 'policefreeezegetdowngetdownpolice' are never going to be bad guys, and you should be able to process that they are just cops doing their jobs in the 1/10 of a second you have to react.
"20% accurate as usual, Morty."
Striking down evil with the mighty sword of teamwork and the hammer of not bickering! Carpe Noctem- we get more done after 2 am than most people do all day.
Sadly, I doubt it because it's the truth. The courts have ruled that way in every wrong no-knock warrant where homeowners pets are killed or family members injured. So far I can't recall any homeowners that are like us that would go guns a blazing back at them. Maybe that's because those, well, the victim isn't around to tell us about it.
When the criminals start acting like police, the police need to start acting like police and not criminals. Otherwise how do you distinguish the difference between the two? Amazingly, the only reason no-knocks are legal so far is because of officer safety....wait, so you tell me breaking into someone's home just like a criminal is safer? Wow, I must be in a different reality.
I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
Whether no knock "warrants" (invasions) or criminal home invasions, time to harden the perimeter. Almost anyone on this forum and 99.99% of the population never have to worry about a no-knock warrant (so far, but with the new Defense Act why bother with a warrant at all?), but they do get the address wrong once in a while. Most of the fake police invasions seem to happen to people already involved in something nefarious (drugs, stolen property....) once the facts come out. I am more concerned with the real cops or Feds or whoever getting the address wrong. We have become a police state and it's just starting to get really ugly, we just need a couple more precipitating events to activate all the Executive Orders and unconstitutional laws that have passed since 1933. If real or imposters, once they have the drop on you there is not a whole lot you can do. I never tried to outrun, outfight or outgun the police..the outcome is a forgone conclusion. A good lawyer, a video and voice recording, and lots of publicity would be the best response.
JediSkipdogg wrote:Sadly, I doubt it because it's the truth. The courts have ruled that way in every wrong no-knock warrant where homeowners pets are killed or family members injured. So far I can't recall any homeowners that are like us that would go guns a blazing back at them. Maybe that's because those, well, the victim isn't around to tell us about it.
There was an incident in (Tennessee?) where police did a raid on a trailer. I believe they had the wrong address. They were minimally marked and wore hoods. The homeowner was chased into a back bedroom where he drew a weapon and killed the officer. He was arrested for felony murder and either found not guilty or no billed by the grand jury, can't remember which. Law enforcement were all aghast at the result but IMHO it was a very long overdue and rude awakening.
I'm working from memory here someone with more time might find the story before I can come back and edit my post. We might have even talked about it here.
Last edited by djthomas on Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JediSkipdogg wrote:Sadly, I doubt it because it's the truth. The courts have ruled that way in every wrong no-knock warrant where homeowners pets are killed or family members injured. So far I can't recall any homeowners that are like us that would go guns a blazing back at them. Maybe that's because those, well, the victim isn't around to tell us about it.
There was an incident in (Tennessee?) where police did a raid on a trailer. They were minimally marked and wore hoods. The homeowner was chased into a back bedroom where he drew a weapon and killed the officer. He was arrested for felony murder and either found not guilty or no billed by the grand jury, can't remember which. Law enforcement were all aghast at the result but IMHO it was a very long overdue and rude awakening.
I'm working from memory here someone with more time might find the story before I can come back and edit my post. We might have even talked about it here.
I remember reading that. There is almost never a reason to need such tactics. At Waco they could have walked up to David Koresh on his daily (unarmed) jog into town or just knocked on the door. Too bad a cop just doing his job had to die in the one you cited. Another bunch that really tics me off when they overstep are bail enforcement 'officers'.
I never thought it would be ruled justified or anything. Just surprised it dose not happen more often. I do realise that 99.99% of the time real cops at least would be able to be in the home 3 or 4 deep with weapons already aimed and that you would be taken completely by surprise and unable to mount much of a defense or even react very much before thay had you pinned.
- OK. Jokes over. Bring back the Constitution.
- Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity.
- No trees were harmed during the transmission of this message, however a ton of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.
