Once again gun laws don't help. (CA shooting)

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Once again gun laws don't help. (CA shooting)

Postby AlanM » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:44 am

Note that the police arrived within 3 minutes of the first shots being fired.

12 dead in shooting at Thousand Oaks nightclub, police say

At least 12 people were killed late Wednesday night when a gunman opened fire at a nightclub in Thousand Oaks, Calif., police said.

Hundreds of people were inside the Borderline Bar & Grill for "college country night." Shots rang out at around 11:20 p.m., Ventura County police said. Witnesses inside said patrons used chairs to break windows in an attempt to escape the gunfire.

Police told the Los Angeles Times that at least 30 shots were fired and the gunman used smoke bombs. It was unclear what type of weapon the shooter used.

Police said the shooter was dead inside the bar. It was unclear how he died.


Video: Witness shares first-hand account of California bar shooting
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Mass shooting in California

Postby M-Quigley » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:03 am

And I'm sure there will be more calls for gun control laws. The real effective solution is illustrated in the article, but some in California are too blind to realize it.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

A gunman threw smoke bombs and rained bullets on a crowd of hundreds inside a Thousand Oaks bar that is popular with college students Wednesday night, leaving 12 dead including a Sheriff’s sergeant shot trying to stop the carnage.

The massacre occurred at the Borderline Bar & Grill, with the assailant firing wildly into the crowd.

In addition to the dead, 10 other people may have been injured, according to Sheriff Geoff Dean, who added that it’s too early to know if the shooter took his own life.

The gunman burst into the bar around 11:20 p.m., cloaked in all black.

Ventura County Sheriff’s Department Sgt. Ron Helus and a California Highway Patrol officer entered the bar first and exchanged gunfire with the suspect, whose identity was not immediately known. Helus was shot several times and died at an area hospital early Thursday morning, according to Dean.


The first 911 calls reporting the shooting were received around 11:20 p.m., according to Dean. Helus and the CHP officer arrived on scene and engaged the suspect by 11:26 p.m., he said.

A motive in the shooting was not immediately clear, but Dean said there was no evidence linking the attack to terrorism. Police believe the weapon used was a handgun.


Police arriving 6 minutes into a mass shooting are generally going to be in greater risk confronting an unknown suspect than someone armed at the scene and immediantly reacting. This is particularly true if the armed resistance is not wearing a potential target (uniform) The response time could've been a few seconds instead of 6 minutes, and the number of dead/wounded wouldn't have been in the double digits.

This is a trusted place ... to know that this happened in my safe place is a very, very scary thing.”


Why a trusted place? Just because it's never happened before at that place? It's happened at other supposedly safe places across the country. No concealed carriers, no mention of any armed security, at a place the article stated had hundreds of people present.

Savannah Stafseth was standing outside crying with multiple cuts on her arms

“There are no words. Those are my people,” she said. “It’s just not fair. It’s not fair.”

Aubrey Ryan, 27, of Newbury Park, was in the front of the restaurant with at least 15 friends when a man came in and started shooting at the ceiling.



The Cleveland Plain Dealer reporter was right when he essentially asked how many more have to die before churches start having some kind of armed response at the location against a mass shooter, but the fact is that advice applies anywhere a mass shooting might occur, which is anywhere where there is lots of potential victims in an enclosed space for a murderer. :(
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Re: Mass shooting in California

Postby WY_Not » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:11 am

Dupe of one posted just a touch earlier...

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=92517

Allen beat you to it.
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Re: Once again gun laws don't help. (CA shooting)

Postby Javelin Man » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:12 am

Nancy Pelosi will use this to get her gun (people) control agenda kick-started.

Sensible gun laws: since when does a senseless crime have anything to do with common sense?

Universal background checks: How many background checks must a felon go through to get a gun?

Easy access to guns: How hard is it for a criminal to get a gun and what laws is he breaking and what laws can be passed that a criminal will follow? Was there easy access to guns (yes, just mail a check to Sears and a revolver would show up in the mail) in the 40's,50's and 60's when there were no mass murders to speak of?
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Re: Once again gun laws don't help. (CA shooting)

Postby M-Quigley » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:51 am

AlanM wrote:Note that the police arrived within 3 minutes of the first shots being fired.


The report I read said 6 minutes. Regardless, let's say it was 3 minutes. A three minute response to an armed murderer is not the same as a 3 second response when lives are at stake.
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Re: Once again gun laws don't help. (CA shooting)

Postby Bruenor » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:32 am

Shooter was an ex-marine still no motive known

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... a-bar.html

Firearm was a Glock handgun in .45 caliber with an extended magazine.

'The handgun is designed to hold 10 rounds and one in the chamber. This weapon did have an extended magazine on it.

'We do not know at this time how many the magazine could actually hold because it's still being processed,' Ventura County Sheriff Geoff Dean said, adding he had 'no idea' what his motive for the attack was.
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Re: Once again gun laws don't help. (CA shooting)

Postby pirateguy191 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:37 am

Why does the U.K. have more extensive coverage of us than we do?
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Re: Once again gun laws don't help. (CA shooting)

Postby bignflnut » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:46 am

To the headline's point.

According to ABC News, Ventura County Sheriff Geoff Dean indicates the gunman used a legally purchased handgun. USA Today also reported that the gun was a Glock which was legally purchased. This makes the Thousand Oaks gunman one of multiple mass public attackers who acquired their guns by complying with all the left’s gun controls, rather than circumventing them.

SNIP

Despite demonstrable proof that gun control does not stop determined attackers Sen. Chris Murphy (D-CT) responded to the Thousand Oaks shooting by pushing more gun laws.


Mr and Mrs America, people own guns and some are inclined to use them to do bodily harm to innocent citizens. If innocent citizens are not able to arm themselves and respond in the moment, innocent citizens will suffer more slaughters of this nature.

Families, churches and communities are the institutions that turn hearts towards caring for their fellow man. The civil government is wholly inadequate in providing protection against these random threats. In our heated political rhetoric, we have fueled identity politics against county music loving, truck driving, hard working individuals. That needs to stop immediately. Thoughts and prayers to the victims, their families and community (mic drop)!

More details have emerged about the shooter, 28-year-old Ian David Long, who opened fire at let off at least 30 shots from a Glock with an extended magazine. Long, a former-marine, was dressed in all black during the shooting and eventually turned the gun on himself after police officers arrived.

Police say they have "had several contacts with Mr. Long over the years for minor offenses."

He was a victim of assault and battery in a bar in 2015. The police then confirmed that in April of this year, officers were called to Long's house: "officers went to his house, he was somewhat irate, acting a little irrationally."

The officers then called out their Crisis Intervention Team, "and mental health specialists who met with him, talked to him, and cleared him, didn't feel he was qualified to be taken under 5150."

BREAKING: CA Shooter identified -Ian David Long, 28 years old. #CaliforniaShooting #ThousandOaks pic.twitter.com/TqqUpZZrAn
— CajunAsian (@RiflemansCreed) November 8, 2018
Last edited by bignflnut on Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Once again gun laws don't help. (CA shooting)

Postby yogidave » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:50 am

I just read that he was a former Marine.
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Re: Once again gun laws don't help. (CA shooting)

Postby qmti » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:49 pm

Sadly, another piece of wood for the anti-gun community to throw on their fire. The crazies are killing the law abiding gun owners.
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Re: Mass shooting in California

Postby Mustang380gal » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:31 pm

WY_Not wrote:Dupe of one posted just a touch earlier...

http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=92517

Allen beat you to it.

Merged.
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Re: Once again gun laws don't help. (CA shooting)

Postby 747tech » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:39 pm

I give this story a 24 hour life cycle in the media. Ca. has magazine restrictions already, he bought it legally with a background check and it wasn’t an AR15.
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Re: Once again gun laws don't help. (CA shooting)

Postby M-Quigley » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:42 pm

The anti gunners are making a big deal out of the fact that the first victim of the murderer was a security guard at the front door. I can't however find any sources so far as to whether the guard at the door was in uniform or not, and whether he/she was an armed guard. On the CBS evening news they reported that there were 6 off duty cops at the place that were moonlighting as security guards, but the reporter stated they were all unarmed guards. They did not report on whether the guard at the door was armed or not. If anyone knows, can they post it?
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Re: Once again gun laws don't help. (CA shooting)

Postby M-Quigley » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:37 am

Regarding my previous question, never mind. The Washington Post reported the security guard at the door was also unarmed. Six or seven security guards are all unarmed. The Post tried to make the argument that armed security doesn't work either, because the school resource officer at the Florida school was armed and he didn't stop the mass shooter. :?: If I recall correctly the deputy didn't even try to stop the shooter. Perhaps the Post thinks the carried gun should take itself out of the holster and shoot the bad guy?
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Re: Once again gun laws don't help. (CA shooting)

Postby catfish86 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:10 pm

One thing I hate is they are harping that the mental health evaluation opined that this guy MIGHT have PTSD, being a Marine veteran. Pet peeve of mine is the common myth that people with PTSD, especially veterans, are ticking time bombs just waiting to explode on those around them. Although there are cases of this, it is not the norm. PTSD is very treatable as long as the person with it takes it seriously. This is one reason why many vets end up without jobs.

Truth is this guy's high school coaches say he was a ticking time bomb before he ever shipped off to boot camp.
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