Effect of provocation under Stand Your Ground

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Re: Effect of provocation under Stand Your Ground

Postby BEAR! » Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:37 pm

catfish86 wrote:For one thing, guilty people get off and innocent people are convicted.

For another, so you now admit you really don't know why she got out of that vehicle any more than I do. But we do know he initiated the conversation and it was threatening enough to get the attention of everybody in view of the camera.

We also know that when the shot was fired the victim was retreating.


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Re: Effect of provocation under Stand Your Ground

Postby cashman966 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:02 pm

OK I know I said I was done, but just one more post to refute a couple of things you state as fact

catfish86 wrote:For one thing, guilty people get off and innocent people are convicted.


No argument here.

catfish86 wrote:For another, so you now admit you really don't know why she got out of that vehicle any more than I do.


I don't have anything to admit to, I am pretty sure I never said I knew why she got out of the car. I did say that I believe that a reasonable person in fear of a physical assault would not leave the safety of their car, and then I offered speculation and hypotheticals based on my belief, I never represented them a s facts.

catfish86 wrote:But we do know he initiated the conversation


Sorry but we know no such thing

catfish86 wrote:and it was threatening enough to get the attention of everybody in view of the camera.


Well we know it was loud enough, we have no clue if threats were made, or if threats were made, who made them.

catfish86 wrote:We also know that when the shot was fired the victim was retreating.


We know that McGlockton took a step back, we don't know if it was in retreat. Without audio or testimony we have no idea if words were exchanged between McGlockton and Drejka after he was violently pushed to the ground. As was pointed out to me earlier in this thread, verbal threats can constitute assault under Florida law and therefore can justify self defense.
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Re: Effect of provocation under Stand Your Ground

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:26 pm

cashman966 wrote:We know that McGlockton took a step back, we don't know if it was in retreat. Without audio or testimony we have no idea if words were exchanged between McGlockton and Drejka after he was violently pushed to the ground. As was pointed out to me earlier in this thread, verbal threats can constitute assault under Florida law and therefore can justify self defense.

Unfortunately for Drejka he spoke to the police at length without an attorney present and admitted (according to the charging documents) that no words were exchanged, that McGlockton was more than 10 feet away, that he didn't see his hands (so no "reaching for a weapon") and he fired because he saw his legs "made a twitch towards him". "

Now I'm not a prosecutor, but I'll bet he likes his odds of convincing a jury that a leg twitch from an unarmed guy standing more than 10' away didn't justify a bullet.
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Re: Effect of provocation under Stand Your Ground

Postby Mustang380gal » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:28 pm

So have you read the charging documents yourself? Are those available to the public before a trial? I don’t know how some of that works.

You will, I hope, excuse me for distrusting media accounts of what the charging documents might say.
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Re: Effect of provocation under Stand Your Ground

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:16 pm

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Re: Effect of provocation under Stand Your Ground

Postby Brian D. » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:34 am

DontTreadOnMe wrote:Unfortunately for Drejka he spoke to the police at length without an attorney present...


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Re: Effect of provocation under Stand Your Ground

Postby catfish86 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:17 am

Brian D. wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:Unfortunately for Drejka he spoke to the police at length without an attorney present...


{Dragnet music} Dumb da dumb dumb, dumb da dumb dumb dumb.



A couple of lessons here...NEVER say anything other than I was in fear for my life or that of another and I want a lawyer.

Personally, I have insurance that costs about $250 a year. CCW Safe, but there are others out there. I have an app on my phone and it is the first call after 911. They take it completely from there, finding the attorneys, paying them, posting my bail. They even give access to videos and analysis of incidents (after the court case is done so facts are on the table) to train you on what to do and what to avoid. Suffice it to say Drejka's behavior is riddled with don'ts.
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Re: Effect of provocation under Stand Your Ground

Postby catfish86 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:41 am

From the charging documents:

The guy holding the door was Robert Castelli and he told the detective that he saw Drejka as confrontational and thought about intervening on her behalf as I stated was obvious from observing the video. He stated he did tell McGlockton that there was an altercation and he might want to get involved.

The girlfriend stated that some guy pulls up and starts looking around and into her car, that he started yelling and she cracked the window cautiously to hear what he had to say. The girlfriend was picked up by the boyfriend from work.

Drejka makes clear he did not see any weapon and claims McGlockton's leg twitched toward him, something clearly refuted by the video. He also states no words were exchanged.

Kelley, the victim of a previous confrontation over the same spot, came forward on his own. He left the confrontation after Drejka threatened to shoot him and got into his vehicle to get something, also stating he called him racial names. Drejka then called the employer and furthered the threat to shoot his employee.

Crime scene mapping buts best guess of distance at 12 feet.

Drejka has two prior instances recorded of him threatening others in traffic with a gun, once for someone who stopped when the light was yellow turning red and once when someone was obeying a school speed limit. Interesting for someone who feels so passionately about handicap parking that he threatens to shoot one guy and shoots another.

Interestingly enough, Drejka is listed as "retired" and he is 47 years old and doesn't have enough money for an attorney.
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Re: Effect of provocation under Stand Your Ground

Postby Mustang380gal » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:20 pm

My guess based on watching him walk on the video is that he has some kind of medical condition. I am a pediatric nurse, not adult, so I would not guess what his problem is. I just know his gait is funny.
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Re: Effect of provocation under Stand Your Ground

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:48 am

Five new details on Clearwater parking space shooting

It took one step by McGlockton for Drejka to pull the trigger, he told detectives. He acknowledged that if McGlockton had retreated, or even stayed still, he wouldn’t have used his gun.

"He made his step towards me, and that was that," he said.

Early in the interview, Drejka said he believed McGlockton was going to kick or get on top of him after the shove. Later, he told detectives he thought McGlockton was "gonna finish what the hell he just started." When asked to elaborate, he said, "No clue. Come after me again. That’s about it," then adds, "What he would have done is just pure conjecture."

Remember that a person's belief must be reasonable.

At one point, he said he was acting under the 21-foot rule, a self-defense training tactic, and said later he was trying to "neutralize the immediate threat" when he fired the single shot.

Like some other gun people who learn a lot of tactical terms and self-defense justifications, he doesn't understand the real details. If the prosecutor or an expert witness knows the background of the Tueller drill (incorrectly summarized as the 21-foot rule) and can explain the differences to the jury that alone could be enough to find Drejka guilty.
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Re: Effect of provocation under Stand Your Ground

Postby catfish86 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:16 am

Drejka said he McGlockton took a step toward him and that he would not have shot if McGlockton was retreating, the video clearly showing McGlockton was stepping away, not toward. He did claim the 21 foot rule...so if someone is within 21 feet all shooting is justified?

When confronted about why he should provoke a confrontation over a handicap spot considering it may escalate, Drejka says that's why he "takes precautions" specifically referring to having a permit. Boy that don't sound good.

"One bystander, Robert Castelly, told detectives Drejka, who did not call 911, seemed more angry than remorseful.

"He wasn’t really upset that it happened," he said. "He was just like, ‘Yeah the guy got what he deserved’ was like his attitude."

He heard Drejka muttering something to the effect of, "I just shot someone. What’d you think was gonna happen? He shouldn’t have ran up on me." Castelly said he ducked down to call 911. He said he didn’t want Drejka to see him on the phone, worried about how he’d react."

The accounts paint a picture of somebody boasting about putting someone in their place rather than someone suddenly attacked who had to defend themselves. Another witness described Drejka as "proud" of what he had just done.

Another mystery cleared up is the girlfriend was getting out of the car to get her boyfriend while Drejka was saying, "what, are we going to fight". These are the actions of someone stirring up trouble on Drejka's part, while the girlfriend was getting out of the car to get help.
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Re: Effect of provocation under Stand Your Ground

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:31 am

Yeah those statements really don't help him. When the police ask you to explain what you thought he would do that caused you to feel you needed to shoot him, and you respond "No clue. Come after me again. That’s about it," then adds, "What he would have done is just pure conjecture." :roll: That's an example of making your defense attorney's job really tough.
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