http://www.cleveland19.com/story/382178 ... vestigatesLAKE COUNTY, OH (WOIO) -
Close to 2,000 Northeast Ohio residents have been notified their concealed carry permits could be revoked because of serious questions over the man who may have trained them.
According to the Lake County Sheriff's Office, letters have gone out to around 1,700 people notifying them of "alleged discrepancies" that could render their CCW licenses invalid.
"They thought they were being taught by a certified NRA instructor," said Lake County Sheriff's Captain Ron Walters. "Come to find out, he's not a certified instructor at all."
Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
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Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
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Re: Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
What the HE Double Hockie sticks is wrong with people.
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Re: Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
WOW.......
Everyday that something like this in gereral pops up when someone thinks they won't get caught it just amazes me on how many people are just that STUPID
Everyday that something like this in gereral pops up when someone thinks they won't get caught it just amazes me on how many people are just that STUPID
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Re: Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
Has there been a change in sheriffs in that county?
Or has the law changed.
In 2004, nearly any training was acceptable IF ok'd by the Sheriff. It just had to be 12 hours or more with 2 hours of range time IIRC.
When did it become mandatory that the trainer be NRA or OPATA certified?
Or has the law changed.
In 2004, nearly any training was acceptable IF ok'd by the Sheriff. It just had to be 12 hours or more with 2 hours of range time IIRC.
When did it become mandatory that the trainer be NRA or OPATA certified?
AlanM
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If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
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If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Re: Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
Until a few years ago, the ORC specified OPATA or NRA certified teachers only. So, it looks to me like whoever wrote that was relying on an older version of the law. Since the new law took effect (2015? not sure), instructors must be certified by OPATA or any national gun rights organization - so, NRA, USCCA, 2AF, GOA, etc. can certify instructors. The coursework itself is still largely unregulated, as long as it consists of 8 total hours or more, with at least 2 hours on the range including live fire, and covers basic gun safety and has a written test, pretty much anything goes.AlanM wrote:Has there been a change in sheriffs in that county?
Or has the law changed.
In 2004, nearly any training was acceptable IF ok'd by the Sheriff. It just had to be 12 hours or more with 2 hours of range time IIRC.
When did it become mandatory that the trainer be NRA or OPATA certified?
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Re: Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
I'm hearing similar rumblings about a high volume instructor down here in SW Ohio. Got my ear to the ground.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
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Re: Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
Interesting it's the second time they have gone after this guy Norman.. First time was in 2013 for fast tracking, doing courses shorter than the requirements. Credentials revoked but they didn't press charges.
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"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
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"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."
- Thomas Jefferson
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
- Thomas Paine
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."
- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
OUCH!! Oooo my wallet! Their wallet!
This guy was charging two hundred dollars $200 for a class That's super ^^^steep!
Re: '' ''We figure 1,700 [people], even if a thousand of them are bad, at $200 a pop for class...he's stealing from all these people," said Walters. "He's purporting....'' ''
This guy was charging two hundred dollars $200 for a class That's super ^^^steep!
Re: '' ''We figure 1,700 [people], even if a thousand of them are bad, at $200 a pop for class...he's stealing from all these people," said Walters. "He's purporting....'' ''
Acquisitions thus far:
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Yeah, I'm that good
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--water balloon (*diversionary*)
Yeah, I'm that good
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Re: Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
Now imagine if only half, no only one-fourth of those people bothered to take him to small claims court to get their $200 back. They could also sue to collect funds for the inconvenience and costs associated with getting their money back and getting another CHL.WhyNot wrote:OUCH!! Oooo my wallet! Their wallet!
This guy was charging two hundred dollars $200 for a class That's super ^^^steep!
Re: '' ''We figure 1,700 [people], even if a thousand of them are bad, at $200 a pop for class...he's stealing from all these people," said Walters. "He's purporting....'' ''
Do the math 1/4 of 1,700 = 425 people @ $200 each. That comes to $85,000 that he owes for only 1/4 of the people wanting their money back. If all 1,700 people took him to court that comes to $340,000
I'm in the wrong line of work How do I get an instructor's certification?
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Re: Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
The problem is I semi-struggled to find people at $100 a class. I would say over 95% of mine were word of mouth. My advertising methods back when I was regularly teaching never really turned out.High Power wrote:Now imagine if only half, no only one-fourth of those people bothered to take him to small claims court to get their $200 back. They could also sue to collect funds for the inconvenience and costs associated with getting their money back and getting another CHL.WhyNot wrote:OUCH!! Oooo my wallet! Their wallet!
This guy was charging two hundred dollars $200 for a class That's super ^^^steep!
Re: '' ''We figure 1,700 [people], even if a thousand of them are bad, at $200 a pop for class...he's stealing from all these people," said Walters. "He's purporting....'' ''
Do the math 1/4 of 1,700 = 425 people @ $200 each. That comes to $85,000 that he owes for only 1/4 of the people wanting their money back. If all 1,700 people took him to court that comes to $340,000
I'm in the wrong line of work How do I get an instructor's certification?
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Re: Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
Just under five years ago, my wife and I were taking a CHL course from this fellow, his son and a third person (daughter?), the one who actually signed our certificates. (I don't recall what we paid, but I don't think it was anything near $200.) Later on, I posted about some of the bad law we received during the course and the instructor corrected the errors after I knew enough to challenge him.
Before I stopped going to Sherwin (due to the number of bullet holes in the wall behind the shooting line), I'd see him there from time to time.
Since then, I've taken a few other CHL courses (TDI I-III, one with my almost-21-yo son and another with a shooter friend) and the quality of training varied dramatically through all four, with TDI being the best (and longest and highest price, hmmm). Most of the items I took issue with were in the area of the law. I don't believe that any of them (except TDI) explained the law well enough to keep a CHL-holder out of trouble, with two of them teaching outright falsehoods and outdated law (which I've since addressed with the instructors).
The name on our certificates doesn't seem to be implicated in this mess. And that reminds me, my wife and I can early-renew next week!
Before I stopped going to Sherwin (due to the number of bullet holes in the wall behind the shooting line), I'd see him there from time to time.
Since then, I've taken a few other CHL courses (TDI I-III, one with my almost-21-yo son and another with a shooter friend) and the quality of training varied dramatically through all four, with TDI being the best (and longest and highest price, hmmm). Most of the items I took issue with were in the area of the law. I don't believe that any of them (except TDI) explained the law well enough to keep a CHL-holder out of trouble, with two of them teaching outright falsehoods and outdated law (which I've since addressed with the instructors).
The name on our certificates doesn't seem to be implicated in this mess. And that reminds me, my wife and I can early-renew next week!
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Re: Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
Two letters arrived in the mail yesterday from the Lake County Sherrif's Office. At first, I thought it was confirmation of our renewals in a couple of weeks, but it was a letter probably related to this Norman fellow. As I stated above, he was present during our course (my wife and I took it together), but his name wasn't on the certificate.
Anyone else get this letter?
Some more pressing questions: My license is still valid, correct? (At least until I'm told that it's not.) Am I running any risks by assuming that it's still valid and continuing to carry, everyday, everywhere? I'm driving to TN this weekend and my wife and I were planning on carrying on these CHLs during the trip. Is that wise?
Luckily, our renewals are in less than two weeks at that address, so we'll address it then.I am writing to inform you that there may have been discrepancies regarding your License
to carry a concealed handgun that may render your License invalid. This office is investigating
the alleged discrepancies. You must appear in person at the Lake County Sheriffs CHL Office
within thirty (30) days of the date in this letter. The CHL Office is located at 84 North State
Street, Painesville, Ohio 44077. If you do not appear in person within thirty (30) days from the
date of this letter, we will have no alternative but to revoke your license to carry a concealed
handgun.
Anyone else get this letter?
Some more pressing questions: My license is still valid, correct? (At least until I'm told that it's not.) Am I running any risks by assuming that it's still valid and continuing to carry, everyday, everywhere? I'm driving to TN this weekend and my wife and I were planning on carrying on these CHLs during the trip. Is that wise?
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Re: Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
Dude, I empathize with you and 1700 other people (the size of the case may help you). Somebody took advantage of the red tape created by the Great State of Ohio to access your RKBA. No fault of yours. There are celebrations to have this great system.rimfireOH wrote:Some more pressing questions: My license is still valid, correct? (At least until I'm told that it's not.) Am I running any risks by assuming that it's still valid and continuing to carry, everyday, everywhere? I'm driving to TN this weekend and my wife and I were planning on carrying on these CHLs during the trip. Is that wise?
I would encourage you to call up some RKBA groups and share your unique perspective.
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"Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams to Mass Militia 10-11-1798
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Re: Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
If the training is in question you may not be able to renew without taking the class over. I guess it all depends on how the sheriff rules on the course.
Have you taken any additional training since your Concealed Carry course ?
I would get over to the sheriffs office ASAP
Have you taken any additional training since your Concealed Carry course ?
I would get over to the sheriffs office ASAP
Μολὼν λαβέ
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
- Thomas Paine
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."
- Thomas Jefferson
"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
- Thomas Paine
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."
- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Non-certified CHL instructor = 1700 CHLs in jeopardy
In rimfireOH's first post he said that he took Handgun I-III at TDI.Bruenor wrote:If the training is in question you may not be able to renew without taking the class over. I guess it all depends on how the sheriff rules on the course.
Have you taken any additional training since your Concealed Carry course ?
I would get over to the sheriffs office ASAP
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