Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

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WhyNot
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Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by WhyNot »

Didn't think good ol' Ohio would be ''affected''? Or was/is that effected? Infected!?

The Ohio Supreme Court (OSC)is for some reason :P proposing rules that if and when finalized goes to the Ohio General Assembly (OGA) to be sausaged into....law.

Read & weep, but please comment. The specified comment period closes this Friday October 12th...

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alert-o ... y-context=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Say Welcome to New Yorkhio, or Ohiofornia perhaps?
Last edited by WhyNot on Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by WhyNot »

For those who vote, two OSC Justices positions are on the ballot next month
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Re: Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by Aesinsp »

Thank you for bringing this to light..
It's (always) time for action.
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Re: Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by kcclark »

I did not know OSC could propose laws and they become the law if the General Assembly does nothing. If you have a divided General Assembly, it would be fairly simple for the OSC to enact a lot of things.
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Re: Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by WY_Not »

Stupid question... Do they become law or do they go to the governor's desk to be signed or vetoed?

Or is this the SC making unilateral changes administratively and bypassing existing laws?
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Re: Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by WhyNot »

I have never heard of this b4 either. The way I understand this. They present this as a proposal-having the weight of the OSC, having looked at many cases and ''suggest'' a course for OGA to follow.

AS I stated in OP, the OGA still has to do the legal process, make a law pass house senate etc.

But the origination has the weight of OSC.

''Rules to Seize Guns'' in the title, does not mean '' the Ohio Supreme Court has ruled in Ohio vs. Jon Doe'' , but it appears they want rules to seize guns
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Re: Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by Flexmoney »

Ohio constitution:

IV.05 Other powers of the Supreme Court

(B) The Supreme court shall prescribe rules governing practice and procedure in all courts of the state, which rules shall not abridge, enlarge, or modify any substantive right. Proposed rules shall be filed by the court, not later than the fifteenth day of January, with the clerk of each house of the General Assembly during a regular session thereof, and amendments to any such proposed rules may be so filed not later than the first day of May in that session. Such rules shall take effect on the following first day of July, unless prior to such day the General Assembly adopts a concurrent resolution of disapproval. All laws in conflict with such rules shall be of no further force or effect after such rules have taken effect.


Google definition:

sub·stan·tive
adjective
adjective: substantive
ˈsəbstən(t)iv,səbˈstan(t)iv/Submit
1.
having a firm basis in reality and therefore important, meaningful, or considerable.
"there is no substantive evidence for the efficacy of these drugs"
2.
having a separate and independent existence.
(of a dye) not needing a mordant.
3.
(of law) defining rights and duties as opposed to giving the rules by which such things are established.
nounGRAMMAR
noun: substantive; plural noun: substantives
ˈsəbstən(t)iv/Submit
1.
a noun.


Enumerated Ohio Bill of Rights (which the proposed would appear to violate a number of):

https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/laws/o ... ticle?id=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .




Thoughts?
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Re: Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by WY_Not »

Not sure on the bolded part. The BFA statement makes it sound like it WILL become law unless the OGA either changes it or specifically says no.
BFA Article wrote:According to the Ohio Constitution, the amendments must be submitted to the General Assembly by Jan. 15, and the Court has until April 30 to make any revisions and file the amendments. Unless the General Assembly adopts a concurrent resolution of disapproval before July 1, the amendments take effect on that date.
WhyNot wrote:I have never heard of this b4 either. The way I understand this. They present this as a proposal-having the weight of the OSC, having looked at many cases and ''suggest'' a course for OGA to follow.

AS I stated in OP, the OGA still has to do the legal process, make a law pass house senate etc.

But the origination has the weight of OSC
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Re: Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by WY_Not »

Right. Sounds like a huge overreach and power grab to me. If they were making changes to correct spelling, grammer, or to make it more correct (as they did when they changed the way ORC is called out), or to make it more understandable that seems like they would be following IV.05. But they are making wholesale changes and rewriting/adding sections.
Flexmoney wrote:Ohio constitution:

IV.05 Other powers of the Supreme Court

(B) The Supreme court shall prescribe rules governing practice and procedure in all courts of the state, which rules shall not abridge, enlarge, or modify any substantive right. Proposed rules shall be filed by the court, not later than the fifteenth day of January, with the clerk of each house of the General Assembly during a regular session thereof, and amendments to any such proposed rules may be so filed not later than the first day of May in that session. Such rules shall take effect on the following first day of July, unless prior to such day the General Assembly adopts a concurrent resolution of disapproval. All laws in conflict with such rules shall be of no further force or effect after such rules have taken effect.


Google definition:

sub·stan·tive
adjective
adjective: substantive
ˈsəbstən(t)iv,səbˈstan(t)iv/Submit
1.
having a firm basis in reality and therefore important, meaningful, or considerable.
"there is no substantive evidence for the efficacy of these drugs"
2.
having a separate and independent existence.
(of a dye) not needing a mordant.
3.
(of law) defining rights and duties as opposed to giving the rules by which such things are established.
nounGRAMMAR
noun: substantive; plural noun: substantives
ˈsəbstən(t)iv/Submit
1.
a noun.


Enumerated Ohio Bill of Rights (which the proposed would appear to violate a number of):

https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/laws/o ... ticle?id=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .




Thoughts?
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Re: Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by JN01 »

I sent in my comments against the proposal. Is there any way to find out which Justices proposed these changes? Can a single Justice propose changes, or does it take a majority?
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Re: Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by WhyNot »

Also FYI , two OSC Justices appear on the ballot in a few weeks. I wonder their positions on this?

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Re: Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by schmieg »

I think BFA is playing Chicken Little with this, possibly to generate fund raising. The Supreme Court has the authority to make procedural rules for all the courts in Ohio and this is nothing more than that. There is no change to the law in the proposed rules, only new forms and notification procedures. These appear to address the issue that many clerks of courts have failed to provide notice to the required agencies of the issuance of CPO's and the terms contained therein. Nothing in those proposals contains a requirement that firearms be confiscated or destroyed that was not already in the law. One of the forms does provide that a LE agency may destroy seized weapons upon the termination of the protection order if the defendant fails to move the court for the return of the weapons, but that is about it. Actually, it used to be the same, but the form contained a 30 day limit on the time to file the motion while the new forms do not.

Again, there is nothing here that is not already in the law. It is only new reporting forms and new reporting procedures.
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Re: Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by OhioPaints »

Thanks schmieg, your comments are very helpful.
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Re: Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by WY_Not »

Separate issue I suppose... But, if the protection order ends then unless the owner is a prohibited person then they shouldn't have to ask for their property back, shouldn't have to beg the court to tell the LEOs to return what is theirs. That should be a given; anything else is just plain thievery.
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Re: Ohio Supreme Court is going to act; Rules to Seize Guns

Post by JediSkipdogg »

WY_Not wrote:Separate issue I suppose... But, if the protection order ends then unless the owner is a prohibited person then they shouldn't have to ask for their property back, shouldn't have to beg the court to tell the LEOs to return what is theirs. That should be a given; anything else is just plain thievery.
I can unfortunately see it both ways. Keep in mind there are many types of protection orders. The issue comes in why it was issued and does a subsequent court case that was tied along with it overrule the reason it was issued. All protection orders have time limits on them and they do expire. The ones that "stick" generally expire and are then replaced with a judgement, something law enforcement may not have easy access to.
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