Woman suing Madison school board over plan to arm staff

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M-Quigley
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Woman suing Madison school board over plan to arm staff

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https://www.whio.com/news/madison-schoo ... k6aNbrUtO/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In 2016, the school was the site of a shooting that saw a student wound three classmates.

Spurred on in part by a board statement released earlier this week, which questioned “why anyone would want to work against our goal of protecting students,” opponents of Madison’s armed security plan tried to convince the board to alter course.

Most — including school parent Erin Gabbard, who with the help of a national, anti-gun advocacy group has joined with some other parents in suing the district to stop the arming program — re-iterated their opposition to letting staffers have guns available to them in school.

“This lawsuit is not about money, it’s about safety,” Gabbard told the board and the more than 70 people at the meeting in the Madison Junior/Senior High School library.
Gabbard and four other parents with children in Madison Schools, are represented by attorneys from Columbus who work in conjunction with the New York City-based Everytown for Gun Safety Support Fund, a national advocacy group opposed to gun violence.

Madison Twp. resident Pete Trensum said he likes the board’s plan to arm staffers and resents those outside the community trying to influence the school system’s policies.

“Why do we have these outside organizations funding money … and we have attorneys coming in here saying you can’t do this (arm staffers)” as some other school systems in Ohio — and nationwide — have chosen to do, said Trensum.

“They (anti-gun advocates) are here for their organization to make money or to get notoriety, they don’t care about these schools. We (local taxpayers) are funding these schools and so far we have paid for these things (arming staffers) to take place,” said Trensum.

“Why should my tax money go to fighting off (the lawsuit) against something that most of the community is in favor of,” he said of the expanded use of firearms in the schools.
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Re: Woman suing Madison school board over plan to arm staff

Post by M-Quigley »

Update: Madison schools asking judge to dismiss lawsuit, due to the plaintiff reading only what she wanted to of the law and ignored the rest which was inconvenient to her opinion. That's my opinion of course, not the specific legal used obviously.

https://www.whio.com/news/madison-schoo ... cnA4MFxPI/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Attorneys for the Madison school district claim the parents who sued the school board misread state statutes that say gun-carrying teachers must have 70 hours of peace officer training.

The school district has asked Judge Charles Pater to grant summary judgment, effectively ending the case because there is no “genuine issue of material fact.”

A group of parents sued the Board of Education and superintendent in September, alleging the board’s April resolution authorizing armed staff in schools violates an Ohio law requiring that armed school employees be trained and certified as peace officers. The gun program came about after a school shooting there three years ago when four students were injured by a classmate.

The parents are seeking an injunction blocking the district from arming teachers and other staff without the training required by law — 728 hours versus the 26 hours the school has in its policy — and a court order requiring disclosure of policies and procedures for arming staff.

The attorneys for the school district told Judge Charles Pater in a motion Ohio law sanctions school employees carrying concealed firearms to protect the children and doesn’t require lengthy training at the Ohio Peace Officer Training Academy.

“The plain language of R.C. 109.78(D) is clear: it does not apply to those to those staff members authorized to carry a concealed weapon in a school safety zone,” the motion reads. “Instead, the statute requires ‘a special police officer, security guard and other position in which such person goes armed on duty’ to attend OPOTA-approved basic training or otherwise have 20 years experience as a police officer.”
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Re: Woman suing Madison school board over plan to arm staff

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Update: Judge could decide as early as today on suit

https://www.whio.com/news/judge-could-d ... KV8xtHrQM/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Both sides in the Madison schools gun case are hoping a Butler County judge will rule after a hearing today.

The parents who sued the school board and the school district itself have both asked Judge Charles Pater to grant summary judgment — effectively ending the case because there is no “genuine issue of material fact” — on their behalf.

It is unclear whether Pater or his magistrate will preside at a hearing this morning since there are two entries on the docket, but if Pater holds the hearing himself, there might be a ruling.

The school district claims the parents misread state statutes that say gun-carrying teachers must have 700-plus hours of peace officer training. The parents say if the extensive training isn’t required, the “implications of the board’s interpretations are deeply troubling.
A group of parents sued the Board of Education and superintendent in September 2018, alleging the board’s April resolution authorizing armed staff in schools violates an Ohio law requiring that armed school employees be trained and certified as peace officers. The gun program came about after a school shooting there three years ago when four students were injured by a classmate.
The parents are seeking an injunction blocking the district from arming teachers and other staff without the training required by law — 728 hours versus the 26 hours the school has in its policy — and a court order requiring disclosure of policies and procedures for arming staff.
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Re: Woman suing Madison school board over plan to arm staff

Post by bignflnut »

— UPDATE @ 1:25 p.m.

The judge in the Madison Schools gun case indicated he will side with the school district on the number of training hours required for armed staff.

Butler County Common Pleas Judge Charles Pater told the two sides during a hearing Monday morning he wouldn't rule from the bench, but he is leaning toward siding with the school district. He said his reading of the statutes doesn't require school staff to be treated as security personnel requiring 700-plus hours of peace officer training.
So perverse, to have parents suing to keep their kids unprotected.
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Re: Woman suing Madison school board over plan to arm staff

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“This lawsuit is not about money, it is about safety” said Gabbard.

which, putting in the Mike Bloomberg translator, actually means

“This lawsuit is not about really protecting your children, since we make no proposal to do that, it is about ideaology and feelings. My idealogy and feelings. Screw your kids.”
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Re: Woman suing Madison school board over plan to arm staff

Post by M-Quigley »

Mr. Glock wrote:“This lawsuit is not about money, it is about safety” said Gabbard.

which, putting in the Mike Bloomberg translator, actually means

“This lawsuit is not about really protecting your children, since we make no proposal to do that, it is about ideaology and feelings. My idealogy and feelings. Screw your kids.”


It's been proven in a study of mass shootings, that unarmed victims generally does make things safer. (for the mass murderer) :roll:
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Re: Woman suing Madison school board over plan to arm staff

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Update: They're "considering their options" in appealing the ruling (or course :( ) Translated that means do we want to spend the money so we can harass them some more when we know we're going to lose. :roll:

https://www.whio.com/news/how-both-side ... DolsPWh8L/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The parents sued the Board of Education and superintendent in September 2018, alleging the board’s April resolution authorizing armed staff in schools violates an Ohio law requiring that armed school employees be trained and certified as peace officers. The gun program came about after a school shooting there three years ago when four students were injured by a classmate.

According to a motion filed by the Buckeye Firearms Foundation asking to intervene in the case — the judge denied the request — they provided the 27-hour training.

“Certain teachers and staff members of the Madison Local Schools have been approved by their board of education and have participated in the FASTER program,” the motion reads. “Participation in the program has provided educators practical violence response training, including response with handguns and to provide emergency first aide to victims of violence.”

But during the hearing James Miller, one of the parents’ attorneys, read from transcripts of depositions taken of one “John Doe” who went through the training, who described a more aggressive approach.

In FASTER training you’re taught to find an active shooter, so you go into a shoot house where there is a shooting taking place, and you have to be able to find the shooter, and engage the shooter and stop the threat while clearing the rooms along the way,” Miller read from the deposition.

However, the district’s attorney, Brodi Conover, said everyone in the school district, including those in the gun program have been instructed to only use the passive ALICE (Alert, Lockdown, Inform, Counter, Evacuate) approach.

The parents’ attorneys fought throughout the case to get information about the program released, including facts like the psychological tests performed on those individuals and the policy itself. They always agreed the identities of the armed staffers should be kept secret.

Pater issued a ruling last week that shields the identities and HIPPA protected evaluations but said since much of the gun policy has already been made public in a newsletter it can’t be shielded.

During the hearing Conover reiterated why shielding the identities is crucial.

“One board member specifically said that’s the beauty of the policy, you never know if that staff member is carrying or not and that provides a deterrent to a would be killer that comes into a school,” Conover said. “Because they don’t know which ones might be doing it or if they are actually doing it.”
So apparently the people who filed the suit are opposed to aggression in order to save the lives of innocent teachers and children. :roll:
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Re: Woman suing Madison school board over plan to arm staff

Post by M-Quigley »

Update: They're going to appeal (of course) :roll:

https://www.whio.com/news/madison-schoo ... yrabDfnTN/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
BUTLER COUNTY — The Madison schools parents who sued the district over its concealed weapons policy will take Butler County Common Pleas Judge Charles Pater’s decision against them to the the 12th District Court of Appeals.

The court challenge came in response to a gun policy that was passed about a year ago after a 2016 shooting at Madison Jr./Sr. High School, where a student injured four of his classmates.

A group of parents sued the district last September seeking an injunction blocking the district from arming teachers and other staff without the training required of law enforcement officials — 728 hours versus the 26 hours the school has in its policy — and a court order requiring disclosure of policies and procedures for arming staff.

Pater ruled last month school personnel do not need to be trained as peace officers.

“The plain text of the relevant law is clear,” said Rachel Bloomekatz, one of the attorneys for the group of parents. “If school boards are going to authorize teachers or other staff to carry deadly weapons at school, they must have the extensive training that is specified in Ohio law. Whatever your views on the policy, the board must follow state law and that is why we’re appealing.”
As the infomercials say, "But wait, there's more! The school board is also allegedly trying to "silence" the plantiffs. :roll:
The school district has also responded to a lawsuit filed by Billy Ison and his family over the board policy governing public meeting participation. Ison, his wife, their daughter and her significant other and a friend filed suit in the U.S. District Court in Cincinnati last month. They claim the school board violated their right to free expression and made it virtually impossible for them to speak their views about the controversial concealed carry gun policy during school board meetings.

“The school board has engaged in a concerted campaign designed to chill and silence plaintiffs from further public criticism of its actions by imposing prior restraints on plaintiffs ability to participate in public meetings and by fabricating requirements as barriers to public participation that do not appear in the school board’s written rules,” the lawsuit reads.

The school district responded Friday saying it is well within its rights to place restrictions on public comments at meetings to maintain order and ensure efficient, productive school board meetings.
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Re: Woman suing Madison school board over plan to arm staff

Post by Bruenor »

So does anyone know how their appeal went ? It was supposed to be heard on October 7th, 2019

Also found this related document of all place on the everytown site..
https://everytownresearch.org/documents ... llees.pdf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.journal-news.com/news/fight ... Mqo5XQl6J/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Butler County Common Pleas Court Judge Charles Pater sided with the school district, saying copious peace officer training is not called for in the statutes.

“Clearly teachers, administrators, administrative assistants and custodians, along with most, if not all, other school employees are not employed by educational institutions in (a police) capacity, unlike someone such as a school resource officer who is,” Pater wrote.

The parents appealed that decision to the 12th District Court of Appeals, as well as Pater’s decision to shield from public view parts of the trial briefing, hearing and records. An oral argument is scheduled for Oct. 7.
I do not see the oral arguments scheduled on the courts Calendar http://www.twelfth.courts.state.oh.us/d ... e=calendar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



https://everytownresearch.org/law/gabba ... -district/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Woman suing Madison school board over plan to arm staff

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Oral argument is set for December 2nd according to the court docket in Butler County
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Re: Woman suing Madison school board over plan to arm staff

Post by kcclark »

The school district lost last month. I'm guessing the news got buried because of corona. The article I just noticed was put out five days ago.

https://www.mom-at-arms.com/post/everyt ... ow-at-risk

https://www.fox19.com/2020/03/31/court- ... -training/
Armed teachers and other staff members at school district in the northern Cincinnati suburbs must have police levels of training, which is 728 hours, not the 27 hours in the school’s policy, an appeals court ruled this week.
EDIT: Almost seems like an April Fool's joke. Just looked at the Facebook feeds for a couple of my friends who are in the district and dead set against arming teachers. They spent boatloads of time pushing their position. But now that they won, they have posted nothing about it. The decision is totally under the radar.
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Re: Woman suing Madison school board over plan to arm staff

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"It is difficult to understand how the 12th Appellate District Court of Appeals could arrive at this conclusion," said Joe Eaton, FASTER Saves Lives Director. "They seem to believe that the Ohio legislature intended for school staff to be trained in 'vehicle pursuit', 'radio procedures', 'prostitution', 'commercial vehicle offenses' and other non-related items before they are permitted to exercise the same right to self defense in their school that they do every other hour of the day outside of the school. ORC 2923.122 clearly does not require this for other persons the school board authorizes."
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/madison ... reme-court



One of our forum threads where Joe posted about what was happening in Madison:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=93065
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Re: Woman suing Madison school board over plan to arm staff

Post by kcclark »

More people found out about the court decision.
Part of the law says that an armed security guard must meet the standard of a law enforcement officer. That section of the law is titled- “109.78 Certification of special police, security guards, or persons otherwise privately employed in a police capacity.” (emphasis provided by the author) The state attorney general wrote a formal letter saying that armed volunteer teachers are not acting in a police capacity. The judges didn’t believe him.

What does it mean to act in a police capacity? The police perform routinely scheduled security patrols, but armed school staff doesn’t do that. Teachers are not required to move toward someone who is breaking Ohio’s laws, but the police have to. Police make arrests and secure suspects, but armed school staff don’t do that, and shouldn’t do that. Armed school volunteers don’t preserve evidence and transport suspects for processing. School volunteers are not required to appear in court during a suspect’s trial. That is what the police do. So why would a judge of obvious intelligence confuse the two situations?
https://www.ammoland.com/2020/04/ohio-j ... z6JfMp6fzL
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