HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby djthomas » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:18 pm

Chuck - your summary is fine, the only issue I have is with point (4). While you're right in what it says, it fails to define "other offense" which I think makes this whole provision a dead letter. If I get pulled over for a traffic violation I was committing another offense at the time. Or if my passenger isn't wearing his seatbelt, what the heck does that have to do with the offense degree concerning his carrying a handgun? And then there's the other neat hat trick that someone committing a misdemeanor in Ohio is almost always committing two offenses at the same time. You're violating the ORC and you're likely also violating the ordinance of whatever city you are in. Two separate offenses even if you can't be charged with both. Or what if you're in one of our wonderful cities that outlaws pocket knives with blades exceeding one inch and you've got your ultra lethal two incher on your person? Or there's too much dog poop in my yard and like most cities the ordinance states that each day that I fail to abate the nuisance constitutes a separate offense, thus I am continually committing other offenses until I clean it up. Or, speaking of dogs, if I fail to license my dog I am perpetually committing an offense until I do so.

A prosecutor could easily argue that if you carry in City Hall, sign or not, you should know that guns are prohibited by law unless they're explicitly allowed by the right people, therefore you are inherently trespassing in any enumerated CPZ.

I would recommend "other offense" be defined as "any other violation of chapter 29 of the revised code except sections 2911.21, 2923.12, 2923.126, 2923.16." That takes municipal ordinances off the table completely and limits the scope of what offenses count. Even though traffic offenses are not included OVI would still be an enhancer because having weapons while intoxicated is also a violation of 2923.15.

One other thing, not that I would normally advocate for stricter penalties but when it's left out there as a MM for everybody I expect every city to immediately make it an M1 if for no other reason to give their officers the option to arrest someone needing arresting. It might make sense to limit the penalty reduction to only those with a CHL. I'm speaking from personal knowledge here of what at least one police chief who I know quite well has said. This is not constitutional carry lite; as long as there's a MM penalty cities can and will run it up to an M1. I just hope that by limiting the reduction we might stand a prayer at the local level.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby Chuck » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:50 am

I agree with every word you posted, dj
I also doubt very seriously that the committee is going to amend this bill again.

My position is we should support it
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby dustymedic » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:00 pm

It sounds like there are some improvements. Do we think it stands a chance in view of the recent events ???
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby FormerNavy » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:33 pm

dustymedic wrote:It sounds like there are some improvements. Do we think it stands a chance in view of the recent events ???


In this man's opinion? Nope... I hope I'm wrong though.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby rickt » Sat May 19, 2018 5:39 am

Seventh hearing with a possible vote on the bill is scheduled for 5/22/2018.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby rickt » Wed May 23, 2018 8:37 am

BFA is reporting the bill was passed out of committee on a 7-4 vote. I wish there was some way of determining which version was passed. As far as I can tell from the meeting minutes, no substitute bill was accepted in either the April or May meetings.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby Javelin Man » Wed May 23, 2018 9:20 am

NPR news said it was going to the floor for a vote today. Is this correct?
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby rickt » Wed May 23, 2018 10:45 am

Only if they can agree on a new Speaker. They cancelled yesterday's session because they couldn't come to an agreement.

The House has passed a couple bills like HB 233 (decriminalize CPZs) and there has been no movement on those bills in the Senate.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby JustaShooter » Wed May 23, 2018 11:30 am

rickt wrote:BFA is reporting the bill was passed out of committee on a 7-4 vote. I wish there was some way of determining which version was passed. As far as I can tell from the meeting minutes, no substitute bill was accepted in either the April or May meetings.

As I understand it, there was no amendment or substitute bill so what is on the OGA website should be up to date.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby Brian D. » Wed May 23, 2018 2:39 pm

rickt wrote:Only if they can agree on a new Speaker. They cancelled yesterday's session because they couldn't come to an agreement.

The House has passed a couple bills like HB 233 (decriminalize CPZs) and there has been no movement on those bills in the Senate.


Some of the Columbus politicians make it seem as though selecting a new Speaker is the most urgent, important thing ever, to the point that all other activity must HALT until this crisis is dealt with. No wonder I've never thought hard about joining a political party.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby JustaShooter » Wed May 23, 2018 5:08 pm

Brian D. wrote:
rickt wrote:Only if they can agree on a new Speaker. They cancelled yesterday's session because they couldn't come to an agreement.

The House has passed a couple bills like HB 233 (decriminalize CPZs) and there has been no movement on those bills in the Senate.


Some of the Columbus politicians make it seem as though selecting a new Speaker is the most urgent, important thing ever, to the point that all other activity must HALT until this crisis is dealt with. No wonder I've never thought hard about joining a political party.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out they *can't* conduct other business until they have selected a new speaker.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby rickt » Thu May 24, 2018 6:47 am

Ohio House sessions for this week have, once again, been cancelled due to controversy over who will be the next speaker. The fight that’s been brewing among majority Republicans in the House Is now affecting the business of the legislature - and is quickly becoming a campaign issue.


http://statenews.org/post/capitol-chaos-speaker-fight-leads-dysfunction-and-disruptions
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby rickt » Thu May 24, 2018 6:56 am

JustaShooter wrote:
rickt wrote:BFA is reporting the bill was passed out of committee on a 7-4 vote. I wish there was some way of determining which version was passed. As far as I can tell from the meeting minutes, no substitute bill was accepted in either the April or May meetings.

As I understand it, there was no amendment or substitute bill so what is on the OGA website should be up to date.


There was a substitute accepted during the 12/13/17 meeting.

Representative Lipps moved to accept substitute bill [l_132_0595-7] as the new working version of House Bill 228. Representative Johnson described the substitute bill and answered questions from the committee. Ranking member Leland objected to the motion. Therefore, the clerk called the roll to accept the substitute version of the bill. The clerk took the roll and the motion to accept [l_132_0595-7] passed by a vote of 7-4 and [l_132_0595-7] became the new working version of House Bill 228.


http://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/cm_pub_api/api/unwrap/chamber/132nd_ga/ready_for_publication/committee_docs/cmte_h_federalism_1/submissions/cmte_h_federalism_1_2017-12-13-0300_950/l_132_0595-7.pdf

However, another substitute bill was posted for the 4/17/18 meeting but the meeting minutes don't show any vote.

http://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/cm_pub_api/api/unwrap/chamber/132nd_ga/ready_for_publication/committee_docs/cmte_h_federalism_1/submissions/cmte_h_federalism_1_2018-04-17-0300_1339/house_sub_bill_228.pdf

Then another substitute was posted for the 5/22/18 meeting but since the meeting minutes have not yet been posted, I have no way of knowing it it was passed.

http://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/cm_pub_api/api/unwrap/chamber/132nd_ga/ready_for_publication/committee_docs/cmte_h_federalism_1/submissions/cmte_h_federalism_1_2018-05-22-0400_1410/house_sub_bill_228.pdf
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby JustaShooter » Thu May 24, 2018 7:12 am

rickt wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
rickt wrote:BFA is reporting the bill was passed out of committee on a 7-4 vote. I wish there was some way of determining which version was passed. As far as I can tell from the meeting minutes, no substitute bill was accepted in either the April or May meetings.

As I understand it, there was no amendment or substitute bill so what is on the OGA website should be up to date.


There was a substitute accepted during the 12/13/17 meeting.


Sorry, I wasn't clear - I was referring solely to changes at the meeting on 5/22. I'm aware of (and the OGA website should reflect) the substitute bill accepted previously.

rickt wrote:Then another substitute was posted for the 5/22/18 meeting but since the meeting minutes have not yet been posted, I have no way of knowing it it was passed.

http://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/cm_pub_api/api/unwrap/chamber/132nd_ga/ready_for_publication/committee_docs/cmte_h_federalism_1/submissions/cmte_h_federalism_1_2018-05-22-0400_1410/house_sub_bill_228.pdf


That amendment / substitute bill was not adopted.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby Aesinsp » Thu May 24, 2018 10:14 am

Here is a link that I used to email my Representative thru the NRAILA this morning in support of HB 228:
https://www.nrailafrontlines.com/r?u=ht ... 3_18_2&n=3
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