HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
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- djthomas
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
Chuck - your summary is fine, the only issue I have is with point (4). While you're right in what it says, it fails to define "other offense" which I think makes this whole provision a dead letter. If I get pulled over for a traffic violation I was committing another offense at the time. Or if my passenger isn't wearing his seatbelt, what the heck does that have to do with the offense degree concerning his carrying a handgun? And then there's the other neat hat trick that someone committing a misdemeanor in Ohio is almost always committing two offenses at the same time. You're violating the ORC and you're likely also violating the ordinance of whatever city you are in. Two separate offenses even if you can't be charged with both. Or what if you're in one of our wonderful cities that outlaws pocket knives with blades exceeding one inch and you've got your ultra lethal two incher on your person? Or there's too much dog poop in my yard and like most cities the ordinance states that each day that I fail to abate the nuisance constitutes a separate offense, thus I am continually committing other offenses until I clean it up. Or, speaking of dogs, if I fail to license my dog I am perpetually committing an offense until I do so.
A prosecutor could easily argue that if you carry in City Hall, sign or not, you should know that guns are prohibited by law unless they're explicitly allowed by the right people, therefore you are inherently trespassing in any enumerated CPZ.
I would recommend "other offense" be defined as "any other violation of chapter 29 of the revised code except sections 2911.21, 2923.12, 2923.126, 2923.16." That takes municipal ordinances off the table completely and limits the scope of what offenses count. Even though traffic offenses are not included OVI would still be an enhancer because having weapons while intoxicated is also a violation of 2923.15.
One other thing, not that I would normally advocate for stricter penalties but when it's left out there as a MM for everybody I expect every city to immediately make it an M1 if for no other reason to give their officers the option to arrest someone needing arresting. It might make sense to limit the penalty reduction to only those with a CHL. I'm speaking from personal knowledge here of what at least one police chief who I know quite well has said. This is not constitutional carry lite; as long as there's a MM penalty cities can and will run it up to an M1. I just hope that by limiting the reduction we might stand a prayer at the local level.
A prosecutor could easily argue that if you carry in City Hall, sign or not, you should know that guns are prohibited by law unless they're explicitly allowed by the right people, therefore you are inherently trespassing in any enumerated CPZ.
I would recommend "other offense" be defined as "any other violation of chapter 29 of the revised code except sections 2911.21, 2923.12, 2923.126, 2923.16." That takes municipal ordinances off the table completely and limits the scope of what offenses count. Even though traffic offenses are not included OVI would still be an enhancer because having weapons while intoxicated is also a violation of 2923.15.
One other thing, not that I would normally advocate for stricter penalties but when it's left out there as a MM for everybody I expect every city to immediately make it an M1 if for no other reason to give their officers the option to arrest someone needing arresting. It might make sense to limit the penalty reduction to only those with a CHL. I'm speaking from personal knowledge here of what at least one police chief who I know quite well has said. This is not constitutional carry lite; as long as there's a MM penalty cities can and will run it up to an M1. I just hope that by limiting the reduction we might stand a prayer at the local level.
- Chuck
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
I agree with every word you posted, dj
I also doubt very seriously that the committee is going to amend this bill again.
My position is we should support it
I also doubt very seriously that the committee is going to amend this bill again.
My position is we should support it
Ain't activism fun?
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"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
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And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
- dustymedic
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
It sounds like there are some improvements. Do we think it stands a chance in view of the recent events ???
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Just remember, the largest mass murder in US history was committed with box cutters...
Just remember, the largest mass murder in US history was committed with box cutters...
- FormerNavy
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
In this man's opinion? Nope... I hope I'm wrong though.dustymedic wrote:It sounds like there are some improvements. Do we think it stands a chance in view of the recent events ???
- rickt
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
Seventh hearing with a possible vote on the bill is scheduled for 5/22/2018.
- rickt
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
BFA is reporting the bill was passed out of committee on a 7-4 vote. I wish there was some way of determining which version was passed. As far as I can tell from the meeting minutes, no substitute bill was accepted in either the April or May meetings.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
NPR news said it was going to the floor for a vote today. Is this correct?
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bruh bruh is slang for "complete and total moron" -sodbuster95
The following is a list of children's books that didn't quite make it to the printing press...
1. What Is That Dog Doing to That Other Dog?
2. Daddy Drinks Because You Cry
3. You Were An Accident
4. Bi-Curious George
- rickt
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
Only if they can agree on a new Speaker. They cancelled yesterday's session because they couldn't come to an agreement.
The House has passed a couple bills like HB 233 (decriminalize CPZs) and there has been no movement on those bills in the Senate.
The House has passed a couple bills like HB 233 (decriminalize CPZs) and there has been no movement on those bills in the Senate.
- JustaShooter
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
As I understand it, there was no amendment or substitute bill so what is on the OGA website should be up to date.rickt wrote:BFA is reporting the bill was passed out of committee on a 7-4 vote. I wish there was some way of determining which version was passed. As far as I can tell from the meeting minutes, no substitute bill was accepted in either the April or May meetings.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
Some of the Columbus politicians make it seem as though selecting a new Speaker is the most urgent, important thing ever, to the point that all other activity must HALT until this crisis is dealt with. No wonder I've never thought hard about joining a political party.rickt wrote:Only if they can agree on a new Speaker. They cancelled yesterday's session because they couldn't come to an agreement.
The House has passed a couple bills like HB 233 (decriminalize CPZs) and there has been no movement on those bills in the Senate.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
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- JustaShooter
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
I wouldn't be surprised to find out they *can't* conduct other business until they have selected a new speaker.Brian D. wrote:Some of the Columbus politicians make it seem as though selecting a new Speaker is the most urgent, important thing ever, to the point that all other activity must HALT until this crisis is dealt with. No wonder I've never thought hard about joining a political party.rickt wrote:Only if they can agree on a new Speaker. They cancelled yesterday's session because they couldn't come to an agreement.
The House has passed a couple bills like HB 233 (decriminalize CPZs) and there has been no movement on those bills in the Senate.
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- rickt
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
http://statenews.org/post/capitol-chaos ... isruptionsOhio House sessions for this week have, once again, been cancelled due to controversy over who will be the next speaker. The fight that’s been brewing among majority Republicans in the House Is now affecting the business of the legislature - and is quickly becoming a campaign issue.
- rickt
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
There was a substitute accepted during the 12/13/17 meeting.JustaShooter wrote:As I understand it, there was no amendment or substitute bill so what is on the OGA website should be up to date.rickt wrote:BFA is reporting the bill was passed out of committee on a 7-4 vote. I wish there was some way of determining which version was passed. As far as I can tell from the meeting minutes, no substitute bill was accepted in either the April or May meetings.
http://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/cm_p ... 0595-7.pdfRepresentative Lipps moved to accept substitute bill [l_132_0595-7] as the new working version of House Bill 228. Representative Johnson described the substitute bill and answered questions from the committee. Ranking member Leland objected to the motion. Therefore, the clerk called the roll to accept the substitute version of the bill. The clerk took the roll and the motion to accept [l_132_0595-7] passed by a vote of 7-4 and [l_132_0595-7] became the new working version of House Bill 228.
However, another substitute bill was posted for the 4/17/18 meeting but the meeting minutes don't show any vote.
http://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/cm_p ... ll_228.pdf
Then another substitute was posted for the 5/22/18 meeting but since the meeting minutes have not yet been posted, I have no way of knowing it it was passed.
http://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/cm_p ... ll_228.pdf
- JustaShooter
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
Sorry, I wasn't clear - I was referring solely to changes at the meeting on 5/22. I'm aware of (and the OGA website should reflect) the substitute bill accepted previously.rickt wrote:There was a substitute accepted during the 12/13/17 meeting.JustaShooter wrote:As I understand it, there was no amendment or substitute bill so what is on the OGA website should be up to date.rickt wrote:BFA is reporting the bill was passed out of committee on a 7-4 vote. I wish there was some way of determining which version was passed. As far as I can tell from the meeting minutes, no substitute bill was accepted in either the April or May meetings.
That amendment / substitute bill was not adopted.rickt wrote:Then another substitute was posted for the 5/22/18 meeting but since the meeting minutes have not yet been posted, I have no way of knowing it it was passed.
http://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/cm_p ... ll_228.pdf
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes
Here is a link that I used to email my Representative thru the NRAILA this morning in support of HB 228:
https://www.nrailafrontlines.com/r?u=ht ... 3_18_2&n=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.nrailafrontlines.com/r?u=ht ... 3_18_2&n=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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